Before we look at the comparison, remember that Jordan at age 38 had a very easy time playing in the modern era in 2001/02. Prior to his knee injury he average 25-6-5 through 46 games, numbers that only Tracy McGrady had at the end of the season, and numbers that are just barely short of LeBron's career 27-7-7. On top of that, the 2001/02 season was a tougher defensive era because some handchecking was still allowed. And the myth that Jordan never faced zone is also false, and we saw a 40-year old MJ expose the weak defenses of the 2000s.
Considering all these advantages, Lebron should have accomplished more, right? We will see. Also, remember that overall career stats do not prove anything. Mark Jackson has more all time assists than Gary Payton, Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, and Isiah Thomas. That doesn't mean he's a better passer. Karl Malone has scored more points than Jordan. That doesn't mean he's a better scorer. We also have strong evidence to believe Jordan would have won 7+ rings in LeBron's shoes in Cleveland and Miami. The 2016 Heat without LeBron or Bosh made it to Game 7 of the ECSF, just like the 1994 Bulls, but the Bulls had a fully healthy team whereas the Heat were playing without their 2 best big men, Bosh and Whiteside (he was injured early in Game 3).
Let's compare the two at Age 30 and see how the so-called "King" stacks up with the G.O.A.T. |
| LeBron only has a clear advantage in rebounding over Jordan. Jordan had the disadvantage of playing in the triangle offense which is designed to limit assists, but still has a near identical assist:TO ratio. Needless to say, Jordan's assists would go way up in a pick and roll or drive and kick offense like LeBron's teams, and most certainly while playing easier competition. |
MVPs
Jordan - 5
Lebron - 4
- However, LeBron's MVPs came under far easier circumstances
- Kevin Johnson is superior to every PG in the post-Jordan era besides Steph Curry, but was only a 3x all-star thanks to the stacked level of 90s competition
- Reggie Miller from age 33 to 35 outplayed Iverson in 3 consecutive playoff meetings from 1999 to 2001, including Iverson's MVP season, but was never close to MVP consideration in the far more stacked 90s era.
- Jordan competed against prime Magic, Bird, and Hakeem, LeBron in his 4 MVP years never faced one MVP candidate of this quality, let alone three.
- Even the 2nd-tier competition of David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, and 90s Shaq were better than LeBron's competition in his 4 MVP years outside of Kobe in 2009 and 2010. Durant, not even a top 25 player of all-time, just doesn't cut it.
Jordan - 6
Lebron - 3
Finals MVPs
Jordan - 6
Lebron - 3
Scoring Titles
Jordan - 10
Leborn - 1
Defensive Player of the Year
Jordan - 1
Lebron - 0
Top 2 in DPOY Voting
Jordan - 2
LeBron - 2
Top 3 in DPOY Voting
Jordan - 3
LeBron - 2
Top 4 in DPOY Voting
Jordan - 4
LeBron - 4
Top 5 in DPOY Voting
Jordan - 7
LeBron - 5
Top 8 in DPOY Voting
Jordan - 10
LeBron - 7
- Jordan's era was filled with much higher quality defense, and he still won DPOY while Lebron can't do that in an era where it's easier to win DPOY
- Aside from Jordan having more top finishes in DPOY voting in less seasons, he also did so against far stiffer DPOY competition. Tyson Chandler, Marc Gasol, and Joakim Noah won DPOY in 2012, 2013, and 2014, respectively.
- A far superior defender in 2x DPOY and 2x Blocks Champion Alonzo Mourning failed to even make All-Defense 1st or 2nd Team in his first 6 seasons until 1998/99. Showing how much harder it was to win DPOY or receive votes.
- Jason Kidd failed to make All-Defense prior to 1998/99 - his first 4 seasons in the Jordan era - despite being tied for the most total All-Defense Teams by a guard (9)
- Jordan has both a higher quantity and quality in his DPOY voting resume than LeBron and in less time.
- Jordan didn't have the luxury of 2nd/3rd place votes to inflate his DPOY voting like LeBron did. Prior to 2002/03, only 1st place votes existed for DPOY. Outside of 2013, less than 1/3 of LeBron's votes for DPOY in every other season came from 1st place votes.
- This means that the majority of LeBron's DPOY votes wouldn't even have existed in Jordan's era, making his defensive accolades even less impressive without even factoring LeBron's easier DPOY competition
- LeBron was 2nd place in 2009 and 2013 DPOY to Dwight Howard and Marc Gasol, respectively. Jordan was 2nd place in 1993 DPOY to Hakeem Olajuwon and 3rd place in 1992 DPOY to David Robinson and Dennis Rodman. Huge difference.
All Def-First Team Jordan - 2
LeBron - 2
Top 3 in DPOY Voting
Jordan - 3
LeBron - 2
Top 4 in DPOY Voting
Jordan - 4
LeBron - 4
Top 5 in DPOY Voting
Jordan - 7
LeBron - 5
Top 8 in DPOY Voting
Jordan - 10
LeBron - 7
- Jordan's era was filled with much higher quality defense, and he still won DPOY while Lebron can't do that in an era where it's easier to win DPOY
- Aside from Jordan having more top finishes in DPOY voting in less seasons, he also did so against far stiffer DPOY competition. Tyson Chandler, Marc Gasol, and Joakim Noah won DPOY in 2012, 2013, and 2014, respectively.
- A far superior defender in 2x DPOY and 2x Blocks Champion Alonzo Mourning failed to even make All-Defense 1st or 2nd Team in his first 6 seasons until 1998/99. Showing how much harder it was to win DPOY or receive votes.
- Jason Kidd failed to make All-Defense prior to 1998/99 - his first 4 seasons in the Jordan era - despite being tied for the most total All-Defense Teams by a guard (9)
- Jordan has both a higher quantity and quality in his DPOY voting resume than LeBron and in less time.
- Jordan didn't have the luxury of 2nd/3rd place votes to inflate his DPOY voting like LeBron did. Prior to 2002/03, only 1st place votes existed for DPOY. Outside of 2013, less than 1/3 of LeBron's votes for DPOY in every other season came from 1st place votes.
- This means that the majority of LeBron's DPOY votes wouldn't even have existed in Jordan's era, making his defensive accolades even less impressive without even factoring LeBron's easier DPOY competition
- LeBron was 2nd place in 2009 and 2013 DPOY to Dwight Howard and Marc Gasol, respectively. Jordan was 2nd place in 1993 DPOY to Hakeem Olajuwon and 3rd place in 1992 DPOY to David Robinson and Dennis Rodman. Huge difference.
Jordan - 9
Lebron - 5
- It was much harder to make the defensive team in Jordan's era than in the 2000s. A prime Cliff Robinson never made one defensive team in the 90s, but past his prime at age 33 and 35 he made the defensive team in the watered down 2000s era
- Gary Payton even past his prime heading into his mid 30s continued to make the all-defensive first team in the 2000s even after all of the anti-defense rule changes
Steals titles
Jordan - 3
Lebron - 0
Finals losses
Jordan - 0
Lebron - 6
LeBron losing in the Finals proves that he only made the Finals because he was lucky enough to be in the easier conference. Had he played in the West, he would have lost to the Spurs, Mavericks, and Warriors sooner. That has much more to do with LeBron having the luck of the draw by being in the East rather than supposedly "carrying" any team to the Finals. We saw that in his first year in the West, his streak of 8 Finals was immediately ended and he didn't even MAKE THE PLAYOFFS.
Number of NBA Finals shooting under 40%
Jordan - 0
LeBron - 2 (2007, 2015)
Number of NBA Finals shooting over 40% from the 3pt line
Jordan - 0
LeBron - 2 (2007, 2015)
Number of NBA Finals shooting over 40% from the 3pt line
Jordan = 2 (1992, 1993 - both of them with original 3pt line)
Lebron = 1 (2014)
- Jordan only shot 2/4 (50%) three-pointers in 1991 Finals, but 39% from three for the 1991 Playoffs
Number of NBA Finals shooting under 30% from the 3pt line
Jordan = 0
Lebron = 2 (2007, 2012)
Number of NBA Finals scoring + assisting 50% of team points (assuming all assists = 2 points)
- Jordan = 3 (1991, 1993, 1997) - the only player to do this multiple times
- LeBron = 1 (2015)
Finals Runs shooting over 38% from the 3pt line
- Jordan = 3 (1991, 1992, 1993) - all with the original line
- LeBron =2 (2014, 2017)
- Terry Porter (1990 and 1992)
- Manu Ginobili (2005 and 2007)
- Ray Allen (2008 and 2010)
- Steph Curry (2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018)
LeBron is a better regular season 3pt shooter, but not in the Playoffs where it matters most. Further proof that Jordan shows up when it actually matters, and Lebron is a regular season player. That's why Lebron has a losing record in the Finals where it matters most. Interestingly, Jordan shot 34.5% from the original 3-point line in the playoffs which is higher than LeBron's playoff career 33.2% as of end of the 2019 Playoffs.
Jordan - 4
Lebron - 1
Not only did Jordan win more often, he did it with less help, and against better competition which we will get to. Lebron's only title without a 20+ ppg playoff scorer was in 2013, when he beat 3 teams with under 50 wins, a luxury Jordan never had in any playoff run.
Playoffs with a teammate averaging 22+ PPG
Jordan - 0
LeBron - 4 (2011, 2012, 2016, 2017)
Jordan - 0
LeBron - 4 (2011, 2012, 2016, 2017)
More proof LeBron had significantly more help than Jordan.
Getting outscored and outplayed by a bench player in the Finals
Jordan - 0
Lebron - 1 (Jason Terry in 2011, who outscored Lebron while playing 11 less mpg, and nailing the sealing shot of Game 5 in his face, whereas Lebron never delivered in the clutch)
Getting outplayed by a 13 ppg player 3 straight games in the Finals
Jordan - 0
Lebron - 1 (Kawhi Leonard Games 3-4-5 in 2014)
In the Last 3 games (3-4-5) of 2014 Finals
- Leonard 23.7 ppg on 69% in Games 3-4-5 of Finals (14% higher than LeBron)
- Leonard 9.3 rpg to LeBron 7.7 rpg
- Leonard 2.0 spg to LeBron 1.7 spg
- Leonard 2.0 bpg to LeBron 0.7 bpg
- LeBron also had more than twice as many turnovers as Leonard (3.7 to 1.7)
In those last 3 games, Leonard outrebounded, outblocked, outstole Lebron, shot MUCH more efficiently (14% FG higher than Lebron) and Lebron committed more than twice as many turnovers.
Also, whereas Lebron could never guard Leonard, Leonard locked LeBron down in Games 3-4-5. In Game 5 Lebron had 1 FG in the 2nd quarter (2:30 mark) to bring the Heat within 5, and never scored again until the Spurs were up 21 with 4:40 left in the 3rd - definition of stat padding and not delivering when it mattered. In Games 3-4-5 of the Finals, Lebron scored 63% of his points (51 out of 81) when the Spurs were up 15+. Definitely not delivering the numbers when he needed to. Just stat padding.
Letting a bench player double his scoring average in the Finals
Jordan - 0
LeBron - 1 (2015)
In the 2015 Finals, Andre Iguadola averaged 16.3 ppg on 52% after 7.8 ppg on 47% in the regular season
Letting a bench player double his scoring average in the Finals
Jordan - 0
LeBron - 1 (2015)
In the 2015 Finals, Andre Iguadola averaged 16.3 ppg on 52% after 7.8 ppg on 47% in the regular season
Jordan - 7 (most by one NBA dynasty in one decade)
LeBron - 1
Playoff series averaging 40+ ppg
Jordan - 5
- 0.2 ppg short of number 6 in 1989 vs the Cavs
- Jordan is the only player in history with multiple 40+ ppg playoff series
Playoff series shooting less than 40%
Jordan - 1
Lebron - 4 (2007 vs Spurs, 2008 vs Celtics, 2015 vs Bulls, and 2015 vs Warriors)
Playoff series averaging 5+ turnovers
Jordan - 0
Lebron - 2 (2007 vs Spurs and 2008 vs Celtics)
The worst part? LeBron has those sub-40% shooting and 5+ turnover series even though he has never been guarded by a DPOY in a playoff series, aside from Kahwi Leonard who outplayed him on both ends of the floor in Games 3-4-5 of the 2014 Finals
Jordan in the playoffs was guarded by DPOY winners Sidney Moncrief (1985), Alvin Robertson (1990), Dennis Rodman (x4 1988-1991), and Gary Payton in the 1996 NBA Finals.
Only once did Jordan ever shoot under 40% in a series at age 34 against the 1997 Heat in the ECF. And even then, this was due to an anomaly in Game 4 where Jordan shot 9/35. In the 4 wins, Jordan still had 30-8-4-2-1 on 43%.
Jordan - 1
Lebron - 4 (2007 vs Spurs, 2008 vs Celtics, 2015 vs Bulls, and 2015 vs Warriors)
Playoff series averaging 5+ turnovers
Jordan - 0
Lebron - 2 (2007 vs Spurs and 2008 vs Celtics)
The worst part? LeBron has those sub-40% shooting and 5+ turnover series even though he has never been guarded by a DPOY in a playoff series, aside from Kahwi Leonard who outplayed him on both ends of the floor in Games 3-4-5 of the 2014 Finals
Jordan in the playoffs was guarded by DPOY winners Sidney Moncrief (1985), Alvin Robertson (1990), Dennis Rodman (x4 1988-1991), and Gary Payton in the 1996 NBA Finals.
Only once did Jordan ever shoot under 40% in a series at age 34 against the 1997 Heat in the ECF. And even then, this was due to an anomaly in Game 4 where Jordan shot 9/35. In the 4 wins, Jordan still had 30-8-4-2-1 on 43%.
Healthy seasons missing the playoffs
Jordan - 0
Lebron - 2
Game winning/tying shots in the Finals with 25 seconds or less
Jordan = 4 on 8 attempts (50%)
- 1991 Finals Game 3 - Game tying shot to force OT
- 1997 Finals Game 1 - Buzzer beater over Russell
- 1997 Finals Game 5 - Go-ahead 3 with 25 seconds
- 1998 Finals Game 6 - Championship winning steal and shot
LeBron = 0 on 6 attempts (0%)
- missed game tying shot in Game 3 of 2007 Finals
- missed game tying shot in Game 6 of 2013 Finals
- missed game winner in Game 1 of 2015 Finals
- missed game winner in Game 2 of 2015 Finals in the 4th quarter
- missed game winner in Game 2 of 2015 Finals in OT
- missed game tying shot in Game 3 of 2017 Finals
Game winning/tying assists in the Finals with 25 seconds or less
Jordan - 2
- 1997 Finals Game 6 - title-winning assist to Kerr
- 1998 Finals Game 1 - game-tying assist to Longley to force OT
LeBron - 1
- 2011 Finals Game 2 - game-tying assist to Chalmers on a 3-pointer
The 1997 and 1998 Bulls have the two lowest scoring supporting casts by a winning team in the NBA Finals since 1954.
Post-1954 Finals Teams with sub-60 ppg supporting casts
1974 Bucks - 59.4 ppg
1994 Rockets - 59.3 ppg
2007 Cavs - 58.5 ppg
2001 Sixers - 58.2 ppg
2006 Heat - 58.2 ppg
2015 Cavs - 57.7 ppg
1999 Spurs - 57.4 ppg
1997 Bulls - 55.5 ppg
2004 Lakers - 55.2 ppg
1998 Jazz - 55.2 ppg
1998 Bulls - 54.5 ppg
1999 Knicks - 53.8 ppg
Post-1954 Championship Teams with sub-60 ppg supporting casts
1994 Rockets - 59.3 ppg
2006 Heat - 58.2 ppg
1999 Spurs - 57.4 ppg
1997 Bulls - 55.5 ppg
1998 Bulls - 54.5 ppg
None of LeBron's teams in the Finals have produced as little offensivly as Jordan's Bulls did in 1997 and 1998, yet Jordan still won back to back titles under those circumstances, and at age 34 and 35 no less.
LeBron won all 3 of his Finals (2012, 2013, 2016) with his teammates averaging 70+ PPG combined. He also lost the 2011 Finals with his teammates averaging 70+ PPG combined. Jordan won all but 1 of his Finals with teammates averaging under 70 PPG. That was in 1991, and only because Jordan averaged an incredible 11.4 APG to give his teammates those scoring opportunities. Nobody besides Magic Johnson has averaged more APG in an NBA Finals series.
LeBron can't win the Finals without 70+ PPG supporting casts. Jordan is the only player since 1954 to win the Finals with a sub-56 PPG supporting cast, and he did it twice. Jordan is the only player since 1954 to win with multiple sub-60 PPG supporting casts in the Finals. Even when LeBron had 60+ PPG from his teammates in the 2014 Finals, they got blown out by 15+ in each of the 4 losses in a 5-game series.
More reasons to easily believe that Jordan would win more titles in LeBron's shoes than vice-versa, not factoring in Jordan's higher proportion of 50+ win opponents and lower proportion of 0.500 or worse opponents.
Title teams with sub-70 PPG supporting casts for the overall playoffs
Post-1954 (Shot-Clock Era)
12. 2002 Lakers - 69.4 PPG
11. 2000 Lakers - 69.0 PPG
10. 1994 Rockets - 68.3 PPG
9. 2006 Heat - 67.8 PPG
8. 1993 Bulls - 67.3 PPG
7. 2012 Heat - 67.0 PPG
6. 1996 Bulls - 66.7 PPG
Title teams with sub-66 PPG supporting casts for the overall playoffs
Post-1954 (Shot Clock Era)
5. 1992 Bulls - 65.9 PPG
4. 2004 Pistons - 65.6 PPG
3. 1999 Spurs - 65.2 PPG
2. 1997 Bulls - 61.5 PPG
1. 1998 Bulls - 60.8 PPG
In the shot-clock era, Jordan has
- 5 of the 8 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- 4 of the 6 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- 3 of the 5 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- The 2 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
Jordan - 2
- 1997 Finals Game 6 - title-winning assist to Kerr
- 1998 Finals Game 1 - game-tying assist to Longley to force OT
LeBron - 1
- 2011 Finals Game 2 - game-tying assist to Chalmers on a 3-pointer
The 1997 and 1998 Bulls have the two lowest scoring supporting casts by a winning team in the NBA Finals since 1954.
Post-1954 Finals Teams with sub-60 ppg supporting casts
1974 Bucks - 59.4 ppg
1994 Rockets - 59.3 ppg
2007 Cavs - 58.5 ppg
2001 Sixers - 58.2 ppg
2006 Heat - 58.2 ppg
2015 Cavs - 57.7 ppg
1999 Spurs - 57.4 ppg
1997 Bulls - 55.5 ppg
2004 Lakers - 55.2 ppg
1998 Jazz - 55.2 ppg
1998 Bulls - 54.5 ppg
1999 Knicks - 53.8 ppg
Post-1954 Championship Teams with sub-60 ppg supporting casts
1994 Rockets - 59.3 ppg
2006 Heat - 58.2 ppg
1999 Spurs - 57.4 ppg
1997 Bulls - 55.5 ppg
1998 Bulls - 54.5 ppg
None of LeBron's teams in the Finals have produced as little offensivly as Jordan's Bulls did in 1997 and 1998, yet Jordan still won back to back titles under those circumstances, and at age 34 and 35 no less.
LeBron won all 3 of his Finals (2012, 2013, 2016) with his teammates averaging 70+ PPG combined. He also lost the 2011 Finals with his teammates averaging 70+ PPG combined. Jordan won all but 1 of his Finals with teammates averaging under 70 PPG. That was in 1991, and only because Jordan averaged an incredible 11.4 APG to give his teammates those scoring opportunities. Nobody besides Magic Johnson has averaged more APG in an NBA Finals series.
LeBron can't win the Finals without 70+ PPG supporting casts. Jordan is the only player since 1954 to win the Finals with a sub-56 PPG supporting cast, and he did it twice. Jordan is the only player since 1954 to win with multiple sub-60 PPG supporting casts in the Finals. Even when LeBron had 60+ PPG from his teammates in the 2014 Finals, they got blown out by 15+ in each of the 4 losses in a 5-game series.
More reasons to easily believe that Jordan would win more titles in LeBron's shoes than vice-versa, not factoring in Jordan's higher proportion of 50+ win opponents and lower proportion of 0.500 or worse opponents.
Title teams with sub-70 PPG supporting casts for the overall playoffs
Post-1954 (Shot-Clock Era)
12. 2002 Lakers - 69.4 PPG
11. 2000 Lakers - 69.0 PPG
10. 1994 Rockets - 68.3 PPG
9. 2006 Heat - 67.8 PPG
8. 1993 Bulls - 67.3 PPG
7. 2012 Heat - 67.0 PPG
6. 1996 Bulls - 66.7 PPG
Title teams with sub-66 PPG supporting casts for the overall playoffs
Post-1954 (Shot Clock Era)
5. 1992 Bulls - 65.9 PPG
4. 2004 Pistons - 65.6 PPG
3. 1999 Spurs - 65.2 PPG
2. 1997 Bulls - 61.5 PPG
1. 1998 Bulls - 60.8 PPG
In the shot-clock era, Jordan has
- 5 of the 8 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- 4 of the 6 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- 3 of the 5 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- The 2 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- Jordan is the only player to lead multiple top 10 lowest-scoring playoff supporting casts among title teams
The only player to lead a lesser scoring supporting cast to the NBA Finals than the 1997 or 1998 Bulls is Allen Iverson on the 2001 Sixers. The 2001 Sixers' teammates outside of Iverson scored 60.3 PPG in the 22 playoff games Iverson played. Game 3 against the Bucks in which Iverson did not play is excluded from this calculation.
Now comparing Jordan's full career to Lebron's at this point...
Jordan won Defensive Player Of the Year in the hardest defensive era of basketball. Lebron has not won DPOY in the weakest defensive era of basketball since the Chamberlain/Russell era. In the 80s and 90s, 5 perimeter players not including Jordan won 7 DPOY awards while also competing against legendary defensive big men such as Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, old Kareem, Mutombo, and Alonzo.
In the 2000s and 2010s, only 2 perimeter players (Artest and Leonard) won DPOY. On top of that, big men the likes of Tyson Chandler, Joakim Noah, and Marc Gasol won DPOY. Patrick Ewing and Anthony Mason never made 1st-team defense, but were far superior to those DPOY winners on that end.
Dwight Howard won 3 DPOY, but got outscored by Pau Gasol in the 2009 Finals on 60% shooting, outscored by old Tim Duncan in the 2013 playoffs, and outscored by Lamarcus Aldridge (30 ppg on 48%) in the 2014 playoffs, LeBron has much weaker DPOY competition - both on the perimeter and in the paint - and still can't win even one DPOY.
In the 2000s and 2010s, only 2 perimeter players (Artest and Leonard) won DPOY. On top of that, big men the likes of Tyson Chandler, Joakim Noah, and Marc Gasol won DPOY. Patrick Ewing and Anthony Mason never made 1st-team defense, but were far superior to those DPOY winners on that end.
Dwight Howard won 3 DPOY, but got outscored by Pau Gasol in the 2009 Finals on 60% shooting, outscored by old Tim Duncan in the 2013 playoffs, and outscored by Lamarcus Aldridge (30 ppg on 48%) in the 2014 playoffs, LeBron has much weaker DPOY competition - both on the perimeter and in the paint - and still can't win even one DPOY.
Jordan averaged more than 31 pts in 5 out of 6 NBA Finals, and shot better than 50% 3 times in the Finals. Lebron has only averaged 30 pts once in any NBA Finals, when he took 32.7 shots a game to average 35.8 ppg on 39.8% in the 2015 Finals. He has only shot better than 50% once - and he lost that NBA Finals by taking only 18 shots a game, and stat-padding after the Spurs were already blowing out the Heat.
Lebron shot 35.6% in the 2007 NBA Finals and 39.8% in the 2015 Finals. He has scored less than 26 ppg in 3 NBA Finals. Jordan never averaged less than 27.3 ppg in the NBA Finals, and never shot worse than 41.5%.
Lebron averaged 17.8 ppg in the 2011 Finals. Jordan had only 2 playoff games in his whole career with less than 18 pts, and Jordan was not benefited by inflation.
Lebron missed the game-tying 3 in Game 3 of the 2007 Finals, and disappeared in the clutch of the entire 2011 Finals. Lebron missed the 3-pointer in Game 6 of 2013, and was saved by Ray Allen.
Sure, he had a big 4th quarter, but the fact remains he missed the shot that mattered most. In the last 4 minutes of the 4th quarter of Game 6 of the 2013 Finals,
- Tony Parker nailed a clutch 3 in Lebron's face
- and Lebron had 1-4 shooting, 3 turnovers
- and missed the tying-3 before Bosh's rebound and Ray Allen's 3-pointer
- Yes, Ray Allen saved Lebron in the clutch regardless of how well Lebron played prior to that in Game 6
- Jordan hit the game-tying shot in Game 3 of the 1991 Finals
- Jordan hit the go-ahead game winner in Game 1 of the 1997 Finals.
- Jordan had the go-ahead shot in Game 5 of the 1997 Finals with the flu.
- Jordan had the series-winning assist in Game 6 of the 1997 Finals.
- Jordan had the game-tying assist in Game 1 of the 1998 Finals to Longley.
- Jordan had the series-winning steal and shot in Game 6 of the 1998 Finals.
Jordan averaged 11.4 apg in the 1991 NBA Finals when it matters most, and that is the NBA Finals record for a non-point guard. Lebron never has done that in any playoff series.
1. Antawn Jamison 2007 1st rd (32 ppg on 48% to Lebron's 27.8 ppg on 43%)
2. Tony Parker 2007 Finals (24.5 ppg on 57% to Lebron's 22 ppg on 36%)
3. Jason Terry 2011 Finals (18.0 ppg on 49% to Lebron's 17.8 ppg 48%)
5. Paul George 2014 ECF (24 ppg on 45% to Lebron's 23 ppg on 56%)
George's ppg FG% was higher than his regular season average of 42%
And there are many other examples of Lebron's overrated defense in the playoffs
1. Carmelo averaged the same ppg as Lebron in the 2012 first round (27.8 ppg)
- Carmelo shot 42% for the playoff series, which was only 1% lower than his regular season 43%. Carmelo's scoring increased by 5.2 ppg from the regular season (22.6) at the small cost of only 1 FG%
- Carmelo also outrebounded LeBron 8.2 to 6.2 rpg.
2. Paul George averaged 19.4 ppg on 48% against Lebron in the 2013 ECF
- George had never even averaged 42% shooting in the 2012/13 regular season or in any 2013 playoff series before playing against Lebron
3. Kawhi Leonard averaged 23.7 ppg on 69% in Games 3-4-5 of the 2014 Finals against Lebron after only averaging 13 ppg in the 2013/14 regular season
- You will NEVER be able to find me a legitimately all-time great defender that got lit up in playoff series during their prime by role players like Jason Terry and Kahwi Leonard.
4. Andre Iguadola more than doubled his regular season scoring average from 7.8 ppg on 47% in the 2014/15 season to 16.3 ppg on 52% in the 2015 Finals
LeBron can NOT guard 1-5 at ALL. This is one of the biggest myths in NBA history. He is a solid defender and that's it. His multiple defensive 1st teams and 2nd place in DPOY have been exposed as fraudulent and undeserved many, many times in the playoffs where it actually matters. He is nothing close to a truly great defender.
This is what happens when LeBron actually guards PFs and Cs for multiple possessions
- Dwight Howard
- David West
- Kevin Garnett
LeBron even admitted after Game of the 2014 ECF, in which David West easily lit him up, that he can't guard PFs for long periods.
“It’s a huge adjustment, starting the game off that way,” James said of defending West on one end and then running the Heat’s offense at the other. “I could do it in spots at times. It was definitely a challenge for me. And I don’t think, personally, I was in the right spots in the right times. It was just a couple of breakdowns on my part. Guarding a [power forward] is definitely a challenge for me for long periods of time. I’m used to switching off more and more.”
Jordan never got outscored throughout a playoff series other than his rookie year when Terry Cummins averaged 0.2 more ppg than Jordan. Lebron has been outscored for entire playoff series on several occasions.
This is what happens when LeBron actually guards PFs and Cs for multiple possessions
- Dwight Howard
- David West
- Kevin Garnett
LeBron even admitted after Game of the 2014 ECF, in which David West easily lit him up, that he can't guard PFs for long periods.
“It’s a huge adjustment, starting the game off that way,” James said of defending West on one end and then running the Heat’s offense at the other. “I could do it in spots at times. It was definitely a challenge for me. And I don’t think, personally, I was in the right spots in the right times. It was just a couple of breakdowns on my part. Guarding a [power forward] is definitely a challenge for me for long periods of time. I’m used to switching off more and more.”
Jordan never got outscored throughout a playoff series other than his rookie year when Terry Cummins averaged 0.2 more ppg than Jordan. Lebron has been outscored for entire playoff series on several occasions.
1. Antawn Jamison 2007 1st rd (32 ppg on 48% to Lebron's 27.8 ppg on 43%)
2. Tony Parker 2007 Finals (24.5 ppg on 57% to Lebron's 22 ppg on 36%)
3. Jason Terry 2011 Finals (18.0 ppg on 49% to Lebron's 17.8 ppg 48%)
- and Terry was playing 11 less mpg - basically spotting Lebron an entire quarter and still outscoring him, and nailing the sealing shot in his face during Game 5
5. Paul George 2014 ECF (24 ppg on 45% to Lebron's 23 ppg on 56%)
George's ppg FG% was higher than his regular season average of 42%
And there are many other examples of Lebron's overrated defense in the playoffs
1. Carmelo averaged the same ppg as Lebron in the 2012 first round (27.8 ppg)
- Carmelo shot 42% for the playoff series, which was only 1% lower than his regular season 43%. Carmelo's scoring increased by 5.2 ppg from the regular season (22.6) at the small cost of only 1 FG%
- Carmelo also outrebounded LeBron 8.2 to 6.2 rpg.
2. Paul George averaged 19.4 ppg on 48% against Lebron in the 2013 ECF
- George had never even averaged 42% shooting in the 2012/13 regular season or in any 2013 playoff series before playing against Lebron
3. Kawhi Leonard averaged 23.7 ppg on 69% in Games 3-4-5 of the 2014 Finals against Lebron after only averaging 13 ppg in the 2013/14 regular season
- You will NEVER be able to find me a legitimately all-time great defender that got lit up in playoff series during their prime by role players like Jason Terry and Kahwi Leonard.
4. Andre Iguadola more than doubled his regular season scoring average from 7.8 ppg on 47% in the 2014/15 season to 16.3 ppg on 52% in the 2015 Finals
LeBron is supposed to be a 2nd Place in DPOY, but he failed to play adequate defense in 7 of 8 NBA Finals
- 2007 Finals - Parker drops 24.5 ppg on 57% and outscored LeBron. LeBron got burned the few instances or quarters that he tried to guard Parker
- 2011 Finals - Jason Terry outscored LeBron with 18.0 ppg to 17.8 ppg, while shooting 1% higher. He played 11 less mpg than LeBron, and still nailed the sealing shot of Game 5 in LeBron's face. Shawn Marion also lit up LeBron.
- 2012 Finals - Kevin Durant dropped 30.6 ppg on 55% on LeBron's overrated defense, compared to his season average of 28.0 ppg on 55%. Russell Westbrook also exposed him.
- 2013 Finals - The only time LeBron played good defense in an NBA Finals when he helped contain Parker to 41% shooting, though LeBron struggled to guard Kawhi Leonard. However, a 35 year old Gary Payton shut down Tony Parker to 38% shooting in the 2004 WCSF.
- A prime LeBron failing to hold Parker under 40% is not that impressive compared to all-time great defenders like Payton. Parker had averaged 21 ppg + 8.5 apg on 53% in the 2004 Playoffs before Payton shut him down, nearly identical to what Parker averaged against the 2013 Grizzlies, and better numbers than any series Tony Parker had in the 2007 Western Conference Playoffs prior to lighting up LeBron in the 2007 Finals.
Games 3-4-5
Lebron scored 51 of his 81 points (63%) being down 15+
Leonard scored 27 of his 71 points (38%) being up 15+
Leonard outscored Lebron 44-30 in non-blowout situations
Leonard 23.7 ppg on 69%
LeBron 27.0 ppg on 55%
(Leonard 14% more efficient)
And again, Lebron stats were heavily padded in garbage time, in non blowout situations Leonard outscored him
Leonard 9.3 rpg
LeBron 7.7 rpg
Leonard 2.0 spg
LeBron 1.7 spg
Leonard 2.0 bpg
LeBron 0.7 bpg
Leonard 2.3 apg with 1.7 TOpg LeBron 4.7 apg with 3.7 TOpg Leonard had a slightly better ast:TO ratio Through games 3-4-5, Leonard scored much more efficiently (and more in non blowout situations) and outrebounded, outstole, and outblocked Lebron with a better ast:TO ratio Game 3 Lebron had 14 points and 0 TO in first quarter, then 8 points and 7 TOs for the last 3 quarters. LeBron had 22-5-7-5 with 7 TOs on 64%, Wade had 22-4-2-2 with 5 TOs on 67%. But over the last 3 quarters, LeBron had 8 points and 7 TOs to Wade's 20 points and 3 TOs. The Heat cut the lead from 15 to 9 without LeBron, after Wade subbed in for him, from the 5:00 to 1:00 mark of the 3rd quarter, but even with that help LeBron still lost. Game 4 Lebron had 9 points in first half and the Heat were blown out by 19 at halftime. He padded his stats from there, and he did not score on Leonard in the first half. Game 5 Lebron had 1 FG in 2nd quarter (2:30 mark) to bring the Heat within 5. Then he did not score again until the Heat were down 21 with 4:40 in the 3rd. LeBron shot 1-6 against Leonard this game.
Leonard clearly outplayed Lebron over the final 3 games, even with Lebron padding his stats, and Lebron failed to score consistently until after his teams were getting blown out. LeBron did not play well in the 2014 Finals after Game 2, he only padded his stats. LeBron's 2014 Finals was a repeat of the 2011 Finals after Game 2, the only differences being that LeBron's teammates disappeared along with him, and LeBron padded his stats to save face. So any notion that LeBron had an "amazing" series, and still lost because of his teammates is false.
2015 Finals
Leonard 2.3 apg with 1.7 TOpg LeBron 4.7 apg with 3.7 TOpg Leonard had a slightly better ast:TO ratio Through games 3-4-5, Leonard scored much more efficiently (and more in non blowout situations) and outrebounded, outstole, and outblocked Lebron with a better ast:TO ratio Game 3 Lebron had 14 points and 0 TO in first quarter, then 8 points and 7 TOs for the last 3 quarters. LeBron had 22-5-7-5 with 7 TOs on 64%, Wade had 22-4-2-2 with 5 TOs on 67%. But over the last 3 quarters, LeBron had 8 points and 7 TOs to Wade's 20 points and 3 TOs. The Heat cut the lead from 15 to 9 without LeBron, after Wade subbed in for him, from the 5:00 to 1:00 mark of the 3rd quarter, but even with that help LeBron still lost. Game 4 Lebron had 9 points in first half and the Heat were blown out by 19 at halftime. He padded his stats from there, and he did not score on Leonard in the first half. Game 5 Lebron had 1 FG in 2nd quarter (2:30 mark) to bring the Heat within 5. Then he did not score again until the Heat were down 21 with 4:40 in the 3rd. LeBron shot 1-6 against Leonard this game.
Leonard clearly outplayed Lebron over the final 3 games, even with Lebron padding his stats, and Lebron failed to score consistently until after his teams were getting blown out. LeBron did not play well in the 2014 Finals after Game 2, he only padded his stats. LeBron's 2014 Finals was a repeat of the 2011 Finals after Game 2, the only differences being that LeBron's teammates disappeared along with him, and LeBron padded his stats to save face. So any notion that LeBron had an "amazing" series, and still lost because of his teammates is false.
2015 Finals
Bench player Andre Iguadola more than doubled his scoring average from 7.8 ppg on 47% in the season to 16.3 ppg on 52% in the Finals against LeBron. Harrison Barnes shot 37% for the Finals, but over 50% with LeBron guarding him.
2016 Finals
Draymond Green did not increase his scoring production as much as the aforementioned players, but he averaged 17 ppg on 49% in the Finals after 14 ppg on 49% in the season and exposed LeBron plenty of times.
2017 NBA Finals - Durant averaged 35 ppg on 56/47/93 after averaging 25 ppg for the season and Rounds 1-3 combined, an incredible +10 PPG increase in volume. Durant became the only player to shoot 55/45/90 in a Finals series under the original 3PT line with a good amount of attempts. This marks the 4th time in 8-9 NBA Finals that LeBron was outscored by the other team's top perimeter player. So much for guarding 1-5.
2018 NBA Finals - Durant again lit up LeBron with 29 PPG on 53/41/96. LeBron struggles to even guard his own position, let alone all 5.
2016 Finals
Draymond Green did not increase his scoring production as much as the aforementioned players, but he averaged 17 ppg on 49% in the Finals after 14 ppg on 49% in the season and exposed LeBron plenty of times.
2017 NBA Finals - Durant averaged 35 ppg on 56/47/93 after averaging 25 ppg for the season and Rounds 1-3 combined, an incredible +10 PPG increase in volume. Durant became the only player to shoot 55/45/90 in a Finals series under the original 3PT line with a good amount of attempts. This marks the 4th time in 8-9 NBA Finals that LeBron was outscored by the other team's top perimeter player. So much for guarding 1-5.
2018 NBA Finals - Durant again lit up LeBron with 29 PPG on 53/41/96. LeBron struggles to even guard his own position, let alone all 5.
Compare this with Jordan, who had an elite defensive performance in all 6 of his NBA Finals
- 1991 Finals, Game 3 - after Pippen fouled out at the end of the 4th quarter, Jordan held Magic Johnson to 0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 assists and 1 turnover in OT as the Lakers only scored 4 points in the OT.
- 1992 Finals - Drexler had 25 ppg on 40.7% FG after 25 ppg on 47% in the regular season, and most of his points did not come on Jordan. Jordan also shut down Terry Porter, who averaged 21.6 PPG with 52% FG and 47% 3PT in the 1992 Playoffs. He is the only player to average at least 15 PPG on 50% FG and 45% 3PT in an NBA Finals run (min. 1.5 3PA/game).
- 1993 Finals, Game 3 - Kevin Johnson scored 23 points before Jordan guarded him with 7 mins left in the 4th quarter. Johnson had 2 points the rest of the game including the 3 overtimes. KJ is one of 3 players in history (Oscar + Isiah) to average 20-10 for 3 straight years.
- 1997 and 1998 Finals - Jordan did not guard Stockton for long periods of time, as this was past his defensive peak. Jordan's off-ball was huge, however, including the flu game in which All 3 of Jordan's steals came off of Stockton's passes. His on-ball on Stockton was also good the times when he did guard Stockton, and his off-ball and help on Karl Malone was also key, including the championship winning steal and shot in Game 6 of the 1998 Finals
And this is not factoring in Jordan's amazing defense in the rounds before the Finals. LeBron is not even near Jordan's league when it comes to defense.
Jordan is 6-0 in the Finals when it matters most. Lebron is 2-4. Lebron might not have lost in the first round like Jordan, but Lebron missed the playoffs his first 2 seasons - Jordan never missed playoffs with the Bulls and only missed the playoffs with Washington due to injury.
Jordan's lowest FG% in a playoff series was 38.7% against the 1997 Heat. That was the only time Jordan shot lower than 40% in a playoff series. Lebron has already shot lower than 40% in four different playoff series, the 2007 NBA Finals, 2008 ECSF, 2015 ECSF, and 2015 NBA Finals. and Jordan still had 30-8-4-2-1 on 43% in the 4 wins of that series.
Lebron in the 2007 and 2011 Finals performed at such a low level, he was not even good enough to be Jordan's sidekick, Scottie Pippen
Lebron
2007 Finals - 22-7-7 on 36% - outscored by Tony Parker and got schooled whenever he tried to guard him
2011 Finals - 18-7-7 on 48% - outscored by bench player Jason Terry and lit up by Shawn Marion
Pippen
1991 Finals - 21-9-7 on 45% - played good defense on Magic Johnson
1992 Finals - 21-8-8 on 48%
1993 Finals - 21-9-8 on 44%
Compared to Lebron in the 2014 Finals and getting lit up by 13 ppg Kawhi Leonard (23.7 ppg on 69% Games 3-4-5)
- Pippen in the 1991 Finals averaged more rpg, apg, spg, bpg and defended Magic well
- Pippen in the 1992 Finals averaged more rpg, apg, and bpg
- Pippen in the 1993 Finals averaged more rpg, apg, bpg, and the same amount of spg
LeBron did score 28 ppg on 57%, but as we saw before, Lebron in Games 3-4-5 scored 63% of his points (51 out of 81) when the Spurs were up 15+ instead of delivering when the points would have mattered
So even his 28 ppg on 57% was just a case of stat padding and not actually helping his team, unlike Pippen. And if Jordan wasn't dropping 31, 36, and 41 ppg in the 1991-93 Finals, Pippen could easily come close to or surpass Lebron's ppg in the 2014 Finals if he had to take over a larger scoring role without Jordan being there.
2007 Finals - 22-7-7 on 36% - outscored by Tony Parker and got schooled whenever he tried to guard him
2011 Finals - 18-7-7 on 48% - outscored by bench player Jason Terry and lit up by Shawn Marion
Pippen
1991 Finals - 21-9-7 on 45% - played good defense on Magic Johnson
1992 Finals - 21-8-8 on 48%
1993 Finals - 21-9-8 on 44%
Compared to Lebron in the 2014 Finals and getting lit up by 13 ppg Kawhi Leonard (23.7 ppg on 69% Games 3-4-5)
- Pippen in the 1991 Finals averaged more rpg, apg, spg, bpg and defended Magic well
- Pippen in the 1992 Finals averaged more rpg, apg, and bpg
- Pippen in the 1993 Finals averaged more rpg, apg, bpg, and the same amount of spg
LeBron did score 28 ppg on 57%, but as we saw before, Lebron in Games 3-4-5 scored 63% of his points (51 out of 81) when the Spurs were up 15+ instead of delivering when the points would have mattered
So even his 28 ppg on 57% was just a case of stat padding and not actually helping his team, unlike Pippen. And if Jordan wasn't dropping 31, 36, and 41 ppg in the 1991-93 Finals, Pippen could easily come close to or surpass Lebron's ppg in the 2014 Finals if he had to take over a larger scoring role without Jordan being there.
To those who think Jordan's era of defense was weaker than Lebron's, think again.
MJ 2001/02 season before injury (Age 38) through 46 games
- (pts, rebs, assist, steals, blk) - 25.1 - 6.2 - 5.3 - 1.5 - 0.5 on 42%
- slightly better than his 1996 Finals MVP averages
- T-Mac was the only player to finish the season averaging at least 25-6-5
- Jordan was averaging 25-6-5 at age 38 pre-injury
- LeBron averaged 25-6-7 at age 30
38 year old Michael Jordan pre-injury (46 games) in the 2001/02 season
(points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks)
25.1 - 6.2 - 5.3 - 1.5 - 0.5 on 42%
30 year old LeBron James in the 2014/15 season
(points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks)
25.3 - 6.0 - 7.4 - 1.6 - 0.7 on 49%
Jordan's numbers were also improving as the season went on.
In his last 20 games up to the injury he averaged 27.5 - 6.4 - 5.2 - 1.3 - 0.5 on 44% In his last 10 games up to the injury he averaged 29.7 - 6.6 - 6.1 - 1.2 - 0.3 on 47%
(points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks)
25.1 - 6.2 - 5.3 - 1.5 - 0.5 on 42%
30 year old LeBron James in the 2014/15 season
(points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks)
25.3 - 6.0 - 7.4 - 1.6 - 0.7 on 49%
Jordan's numbers were also improving as the season went on.
In his last 20 games up to the injury he averaged 27.5 - 6.4 - 5.2 - 1.3 - 0.5 on 44% In his last 10 games up to the injury he averaged 29.7 - 6.6 - 6.1 - 1.2 - 0.3 on 47%
It's also worth nothing that 17 of Jordan's 46 games (37% of them) came against top 10 defenses in points allowed. Despite a large proportion of those 46 games coming against top 10 defenses, he still put up those big numbers while not being healthy in the first place.
Defensively Jordan also had an impact even at this late stage of his career.
2001 Wizards = 2nd worst in ppg allowed the year before.
Up to the injury game
2002 Wizards = allowed 92.2 ppg through 47 games (Jordan missed 1 game)
- would be tied for 6th-best in the league with the Pistons.
2002 Wizards = allowed 92.0 ppg in the 46 games Jordan played
- would be tied for 5th best in the league with the Nets
2002 Wizards = allowed 92.0 ppg in the 46 games Jordan played
- would be tied for 5th best in the league with the Nets
After Jordan's injury
2002 Wizards = allowed 96.8 ppg in the remaining 35 games
- would be ranked 19th in the league
- and fell to 11th in ppg allowed for the overall season.
The Wizards started the season off slow with a 2-9 start
- and allowed 98.4 ppg during the 2-9 start
- on pace for 5th worst in the league
In Jordan's last 35 games pre-injury after the 2-9 start
- the Wizards allowed 90.0 ppg
- on pace for 3rd best in the league
When Jordan and Rip Hamilton played together, they were 15-1 in their last 16 games together up to the injury
- The Wizards allowed 86.3 ppg in that 15-1 stretch
- Easily on pace for the best in the league
- The 2002 Heat were number 1 at 88.7 ppg allowed
Jordan dominated the modern era (and pre-2004/05 rule changes) offensively, defensively, and team-wise before his knee injury happened.
- and allowed 98.4 ppg during the 2-9 start
- on pace for 5th worst in the league
In Jordan's last 35 games pre-injury after the 2-9 start
- the Wizards allowed 90.0 ppg
- on pace for 3rd best in the league
When Jordan and Rip Hamilton played together, they were 15-1 in their last 16 games together up to the injury
- The Wizards allowed 86.3 ppg in that 15-1 stretch
- Easily on pace for the best in the league
- The 2002 Heat were number 1 at 88.7 ppg allowed
Rip played 78 games the previous year and the Wizards were still 2nd worst in ppg allowed. Had Jordan and Hamilton played a full, healthy season together, Jordan could potentially have taken the Wizards from 2nd worst to the best defense in the league in ppg allowed, and with Jordan being the only major addition to the player roster.
Think about that for a second. A 38 year old hobbled Jordan being the only major addition to a team that would have gone from 2nd worst to number 1 in ppg allowed if not for injuries. Can you think of any other perimeter player who could have that type of defensive impact at that late a stage of their career? There are even very few big men or rim protectors who could have done so.
Jordan dominated the modern era (and pre-2004/05 rule changes) offensively, defensively, and team-wise before his knee injury happened.
The only negative of Jordan's game was FG%, which is to be expected at the tail end of your career, and his low FG% had much more to do with his back, rib, knee, and wrist injuries along with his old age, rather than the defense he was facing. However, low FG% doesn't necessarily equate to a negative effect on your team's win column.
- In Jordan's 46 games before knee injury the Wiz had a 26-20 (0.565 win%).
- In games without MJ and post-injury, the Wiz had a 11-25 (0.300 win%)
MJ's Wiz did FAR worse without him or post-injury in the 2001/02 season. They went from playoff contenders to a horrible team. Jordan's low FG% is irrelevant, not only because 42% shooting as a 38 year old man off of 3 year retirement is far from horrible, but because he helped his team win games regardless. And his FG% continued to improve as the season went on anyway.
All this is also despite the absence of Rip Hamilton for about a month during Jordan's 26-20 stretch (Jordan missed 1 game vs the Spurs - bringing their record to 26-21 before the injury).
In the last 16 games that Rip and Jordan played together prior to Jordan's knee collision, the Wizards went 15-1, and they won 13 straight games when both of them played together. Had both Rip and MJ stayed healthy, they very well could have cracked 50 wins overall despite starting the season 2-9 and being a 19-win team the previous year.
All this is also despite the absence of Rip Hamilton for about a month during Jordan's 26-20 stretch (Jordan missed 1 game vs the Spurs - bringing their record to 26-21 before the injury).
In the last 16 games that Rip and Jordan played together prior to Jordan's knee collision, the Wizards went 15-1, and they won 13 straight games when both of them played together. Had both Rip and MJ stayed healthy, they very well could have cracked 50 wins overall despite starting the season 2-9 and being a 19-win team the previous year.
As proven here, players from the 90s started increasing their scoring once the 2000s began, and players from the 2000s had a harder time scoring in the 90s
As proven here, every 2000s superstar had a harder time going against teams with Jordan era defenders compared to the rest of the league - and this was in the 2000s without the old school rules
In the 80s and 90s, 5 perimeter players won 7 DPOY awards, not including Jordan. In the 2000s/2010s, only 2 perimeter players, Ron Artest and Kawhi Leonard, won DPOY. The 80s/90s players won while also competing against legendary defensive big men such as Hakeem, Sampson, Robinson, Ewing, old Kareem, Mutombo, Karl Malone,and Alonzo instead of Tyson Chandler and 0-0 Roy Hibbert (2nd place DPOY).
In the 2001/02 season
- T-Mac started 76 games and had 6 40+ point games
- Jordan started 53 games (46 pre-injury) and had 5 40+ point games at 39 years old (All above 50% FG)
- Vince started 60 games and had 4 40+ point games
- Kobe started 80 games and had 1 40+ point game
- Duncan started 82 games and had 1 40+ point game
- Pierce started 82 games and had 1 40+ point game
- Dirk started 76 games and had 1 40+ point game
- Garnett started 81 games and had 0 40+ point games
27 of Jordan's 37 playoff opponents (73%) have 50+ wins
10 of Jordan's 37 playoff opponents (27%) have 50+ wins
Adjusting 2012 lockouts for 82 games
19 of LeBron's 37 playoff opponents (51%) have 50+ wins
18 of LeBron's 37 playoff opponents (49%) have under 50 wins
Jordan, Kobe (starter years), Duncan, and LeBron are a combined 48-1 against sub-50 teams, the one loss coming from Duncan at age 34 against the 2011 Grizzlies, so it is an accurate cutoff and shows how much easier LeBron's competition is. Had Jordan had the luxury of beating up on scrub sub-50 teams for half of his playoff career, it's clear he would have had far more team and individual success than he did in the vastly superior 90s.
LeBron's wasn't really carrying 2003-2010 Cleveland when he led them in the playoffs. He just feasted on the weakest playoff teams while playing in Cleveland. When he played good playoff teams, he couldn't carry Cleveland anywhere. LeBron only beat one 50-win team in the playoffs during his time in Cleveland from 2003 to 2010, and that was against the 2007 Pistons with no 4x DPOY Ben Wallace and no HoF coach Larry Brown. Every other team he beat had less than 50 wins. LeBron's supposed ability to carry Cleveland only lasted in the regular season.
As you can see, LeBron never was able to carry 2003-2010 Cleveland past any notable teams in the playoffs. This puts a HUGE asterisk next to the perception that he "carried" Cleveland, as he beat ZERO elite teams in the playoffs with Cleveland. He didn't carry them past anyone notable. People complained about how weak his 2003-10 Cavs team was, but the only competition that LeBron beat from 2003-10 was even worse bum competition.
Even in Miami, his East competition was very weak, in 2013 for example he beat 0 50-win teams before making the Finals. Both teams that LeBron beat in the 2012 and 2013 ECF had less than 50 wins (2012 Celtics would be 48-34 adjusted for 82 games). Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan, Kobe, and more legends have never had the luxury of facing a sub-50 team in the ECF or WCF like LeBron in both of his title seasons. LeBron has had it laughably easy in his era. It's no coincidence that the only two championships of LeBron's career came in one of the all-time low points of the Eastern Conference, when 5 of his 6 East opponents had under 50 wins.
Even in Miami, his East competition was very weak, in 2013 for example he beat 0 50-win teams before making the Finals. Both teams that LeBron beat in the 2012 and 2013 ECF had less than 50 wins (2012 Celtics would be 48-34 adjusted for 82 games). Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan, Kobe, and more legends have never had the luxury of facing a sub-50 team in the ECF or WCF like LeBron in both of his title seasons. LeBron has had it laughably easy in his era. It's no coincidence that the only two championships of LeBron's career came in one of the all-time low points of the Eastern Conference, when 5 of his 6 East opponents had under 50 wins.
Clearly LeBron would have never stood a chance in Jordan's era on the 2003-2010 Cavs, seeing as 73% of Jordan's playoff opponents had 50+ wins. Likewise, given how easy the opposition of LeBron was, it's clear that Jordan, and many other players, would have easily surpassed LeBron's accomplishments in the same position. Only once in Jordan's career did he play 2 sub-50 teams in the playoffs in 1991. LeBron played at least 2 sub-50 teams in the 2007, 2009, 2012 (adjusted for 82 games), 2013, and 2014 Playoffs - the vastly inferior and easier competition being a huge reason for LeBron winning his first 2 titles. This also diminishes the value of LeBron's playoff stats, as half of his playoff career has been spent feasting on weak sub-50 win teams.
LeBron has never beaten 3 50+ win teams or 2 60+ win teams in any playoff run (even if you adjust 2012 lockout teams for 82 games), but Jordan beat 3 50+ win teams in each of the 1992, 1993, 1997, and 1998 title runs, as well as 2 60-win teams in each of the 1993, 1996, and 1997 title runs. Hakeem also beat 3 50+ win teams in the 1994 title run and 4 57+ win teams in the 1995 title run. Had KJ and Barkley not missed a combined 59 games on the 59-23 Suns, the 1995 Rockets would have been the only team to beat 3 60+ win teams in a playoff run. LeBron's competition does not begin to compare.
Collective Win Percentage of Playoff Opponents - Title Teams who Played 4 Rounds
(0.726) - 1995 Rockets (238-90)
(0.686) - 1997 Bulls (225-103)
(0.674) - 2016 Cavaliers (221-107)
(0.671) - 2002 Lakers (220-108)
(0.668) - 1993 Bulls (219-109)
(0.668) - 2001 Lakers (219-109)
(0.665) - 2011 Mavericks (218-110)
(0.662) - 2005 Spurs (217-111)
(0.659) - 2014 Spurs (216-112)
(0.652) - 1998 Bulls (214-114)
(0.652) - 2006 Heat (214-114)
(0.652) - 2009 Lakers (214-114)
(0.649) - 1994 Rockets (213-115)
(0.649) - 1996 Bulls (213-115)
(0.646) - 2000 Lakers (212-116)
(0.637) - 2015 Warriors (209-119)
(0.631) - 2007 Spurs (207-121)
(0.631) - 2010 Lakers (207-121)
(0.625) - 2004 Pistons (205-123)
(0.622) - 2017 Warriors (204-124)
(0.621) - 2012 Heat (164-100)
(0.619) - 1992 Bulls (203-125)
(0.619) - 2003 Spurs (203-125)
(0.613) - 1990 Pistons (201-127)
(0.604) - 2008 Celtics (198-130)
(0.601) - 1977 Blazers (197-131)
(0.595) - 1978 Bullets (195-133)
(0.595) - 1989 Pistons (195-133)
(0.590) - 1999 Spurs (118-82)
(0.588) - 1985 Lakers (193-135)
(0.582) - 1991 Bulls (191-137)
(0.581) - 2013 Heat (190-137)
(0.573) - 1986 Celtics (188-140)
(0.567) - 1984 Celtics (186-142)
(0.564) - 1988 Lakers (185-143)
(0.540) - 1987 Lakers (177-151)
1990s Bulls have the most spots in the top 10 with 3
1990s Bulls and 2000s Lakers have the most spots in the top 15 with 4 apiece
As more proof of how Jordan's competition was superior, let's take a look at what happened when a 40 year old Karl Malone and 35 year old Gary Payton played against the 2004 Spurs, right in between their 2003 and 2005 championship seasons.
In the 2003 WCSF, the Lakers lost to the Spurs who went on to win the championship. Enter a 40 year old Karl Malone and 35 year old Gary Payton
- In the 2004 1st round, Tony Parker averaged 21 ppg and 8.5 apg on 53%, which was better than Parker's numbers in any Western playoff series during the 2007 Playoffs
- In the 2004 WCSF vs a 35 year old Gary Payton, He was shut down to 16.7 ppg on 38%, including Game 5 in which Parker never scored once on Payton.
- In the 2004 WCSF, prime Tim Duncan averaged 27 ppg on 65% in the 2 wins
- Then in the 4 losses, Duncan had 17.5 ppg on 38% with 4+ turnovers per game, and very rarely scored on 40 year old Malone. Almost all his points in the 4 losses came on Shaq.
It's also worth noting that Karl Malone at age 40 outplayed Kobe and Shaq in the 1st round of the 2004 Playoffs, when Kobe and Shaq were both top 5 players in the league. That further shows how vastly superior the Jordan era of competition was, when a 40-year old shell from the Jordan era can outplay two top 5 players in the league at the same time in one playoff series.
2004 Lakers vs Rockets, 1st Round
Karl Malone (38.8 mpg) - 18.0 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.8 spg on 49% FG and 59% FT
Shaq O'Neal (41.8 mpg) - 16.2 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 3.6 apg, 2.8 bpg on 52% FG and 30% FT
Kobe Bryant (44.4 mpg) - 24.4 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 6.2 apg, 1.8 spg on 39% FG and 91% FT
Malone also had a very poor performance in Game 1 of 7 points on 3/14 FG that brought his numbers down. He averaged 21-10-3 on 56% FG and 60% FT for the last 4 games
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"The league was great. It wasn't as watered down as it is now."
- LeBron James
You can make a very, very strong case that Jordan has 4 of the top 10 performances in NBA Finals history (1991, 1992, 1993, 1997). Even in his worst Finals, 1996, he made up for his poor shooting % by shutting down Gary Payton in Game 3 and 5 when Ron Harper was injured. Considering that Jordan was the only Bull to show up on both offense and defense in those Finals, the 1996 Finals can be considered a top 20 performance. The 1998 Finals is also at least a top 20 Finals performance of all-time. LeBron has 3 of the 10 worst Finals performances of all-time by an all-time great player, ensuring that he will never be in Jordan's class.
2007 Finals
- LeBron had a terrible series of 22-7-7 on 36% with 5.8 TO per game.
- He was also lit up by Tony Parker when he tried to guard him, who averaged 24.5 ppg on 57%
- The Cavs defense also held the Spurs 12 ppg below their season average, and Duncan under 45%, so it's not like LeBron was completely without help in this series. The Spurs had 85 or less in 3/4 games
- Game 1 - Lebron 14 pts on 25% shooting, 7 rebs and 4 assist to 6 turnovers. Cavs only lose by 9
- Game 3 - Lebron 25 pts on 39%, 7 ast to 5 turnovers. Cavs only lose by 3 as Lebron missed game-tying 3
- Game 4 - 24 pts on 30 shots (33% shooting), 10 ast to 6 turnovers. Cavs only lose by 1 as Lebron goes 2/6 from the FT line.
- Deron Williams averaged 26-4-8-2 on 53% against the Spurs in the 2007 WCF, with Boozer as his only double-digit scorer. And the only reason Boozer played well in Utah was because of Deron Williams. Boozer has only once in his career averaged over 15 ppg in a playoff series without Deron Williams, when he had 17.4 ppg against the 2013 Nets in the first round
- So no excuse for Lebron playing worse than Deron Williams against the same Spurs team, when Williams only had Boozer who showed up to play, and Boozer was only good because Williams created his offense for him.
- So no excuse for Lebron playing worse than Deron Williams against the same Spurs team, when Williams only had Boozer who showed up to play, and Boozer was only good because Williams created his offense for him.
2011 Finals
- With Dwyane Wade averaging 27-7-5 with 1.5 spg and 1.5 bpg on 55%, LeBron still couldn't get the job done and was outscored by bench player Jason Terry while playing terrible defense the whole Finals.
- The Heat defense also held Dirk under 42% to help out LeBron.
- LeBron averaged 26.7 ppg on 51% in the 2010/11 season, but 17.8 ppg on 48% in the 2011 Finals. An 8.9 ppg drop-off, which has to be one of the largest ever in Finals history
- Game 2 - Lebron 2 pts, 0/4 in 4th quarter and Heat only lose by 2
- Game 3 - Lebron 2 pts, 1/3 in 4th quarter and Heat still win
- Game 4 - Lebron 0 pts, 0/1 in 4th quarter and Mavs only win by 3. LeBron had 8 pts the whole game
- Game 5 - Lebron 2pts, 1/4 in 4th quarter, and Heat were only down 4 with 35 secs left, before Terry nailed the 3 in the face of LeBron's overrated defense to seal the game
- Game 3 - Lebron 2 pts, 1/3 in 4th quarter and Heat still win
- Game 4 - Lebron 0 pts, 0/1 in 4th quarter and Mavs only win by 3. LeBron had 8 pts the whole game
- Game 5 - Lebron 2pts, 1/4 in 4th quarter, and Heat were only down 4 with 35 secs left, before Terry nailed the 3 in the face of LeBron's overrated defense to seal the game
2014 Finals
LeBron ONLY showed up for the first 2 games of this series. After Game 2, he was completely useless on both ends of the floor for the final 3 games, and was outplayed by 13 ppg Kawhi Leonard over the last 3 games, which is completely unacceptable for a top-15 player of all-time. LeBron put up big stats, but stats do not tell the whole story. The majority of LeBron's numbers were padded in garbage time after already getting blown out by 15+.
Games 3-4-5
Lebron scored 51 of his 81 points (63%) being down 15+
Leonard scored 27 of his 71 points (38%) being up 15+
Leonard outscored Lebron 44-30 in non-blowout situations
Leonard 23.7 ppg on 69%
LeBron 27.0 ppg on 55%
(Leonard 14% more efficient)
And again, Lebron stats were heavily padded in garbage time, in non blowout situations Leonard outscored him
Leonard 9.3 rpg
LeBron 7.7 rpg
Leonard 2.0 spg
LeBron 1.7 spg
Leonard 2.0 bpg
LeBron 0.7 bpg
Leonard 2.3 apg with 1.7 TOpg
LeBron 4.7 apg with 3.7 TOpg
Leonard had a slightly better ast:TO ratio
Through games 3-4-5, Leonard scored much more efficiently (and more in non blowout situations) and outrebounded, outstole, and outblocked Lebron with a better ast:TO ratio
Game 3 Lebron had 14 points and 0 TO in first quarter, then 8 points and 7 TOs for the last 3 quarters. LeBron had 22-5-7-5 with 7 TOs on 64%, Wade had 22-4-2-2 with 5 TOs on 67%. But over the last 3 quarters, LeBron had 8 points and 7 TOs to Wade's 20 points and 3 TOs. The Heat cut the lead from 15 to 9 without LeBron, after Wade subbed in for him, from the 5:00 to 1:00 mark of the 3rd quarter, but even with that help LeBron still lost. Game 4 Lebron had 9 points in first half and the Heat were blown out by 19 at halftime. He padded his stats from there, and he did not score on Leonard in the first half. Game 5 Lebron had 1 FG in 2nd quarter (2:30 mark) to bring the Heat within 5. Then he did not score again until the Heat were down 21 with 4:40 in the 3rd. LeBron shot 1-6 against Leonard this game.
Leonard clearly outplayed Lebron over the final 3 games, even with Lebron padding his stats, and Lebron failed to score consistently until after his teams were getting blown out. LeBron did not play well in the 2014 Finals after Game 2, he only padded his stats. LeBron's 2014 Finals was a repeat of the 2011 Finals after Game 2, the only differences being that LeBron's teammates disappeared along with him, and LeBron padded his stats to save face. So any notion that LeBron had an "amazing" series, and still lost because of his teammates is false. LeBron failed his team over the Final 3 games, and that's why he lost. He did not contribute offensively or defensively. The Spurs did have great offensive execution in this series, but a lot of that had to do with the poor defensive leadership of LeBron, who got exposed by Kawhi Leonard
Jordan also led the 1997 Bulls in 5/5 categories for the last 3 rounds of the 1997 Playoffs. Hakeem Olajuwon is the only other player to do that, for the entire 4-round 1994 Playoffs. The 1997 Bulls are the only team to win the title with only 2 double digit scorers in the playoffs. After Pippen's 19 ppg on a sub-par 42%, no other Bull reached 8 ppg for the playoffs. Jordan proved he could carry his team in all aspects to the championship, something that only Hakeem Olajuwon can also say.
Lebron scored 51 of his 81 points (63%) being down 15+
Leonard scored 27 of his 71 points (38%) being up 15+
Leonard outscored Lebron 44-30 in non-blowout situations
Leonard 23.7 ppg on 69%
LeBron 27.0 ppg on 55%
(Leonard 14% more efficient)
And again, Lebron stats were heavily padded in garbage time, in non blowout situations Leonard outscored him
Leonard 9.3 rpg
LeBron 7.7 rpg
Leonard 2.0 spg
LeBron 1.7 spg
Leonard 2.0 bpg
LeBron 0.7 bpg
Leonard 2.3 apg with 1.7 TOpg
LeBron 4.7 apg with 3.7 TOpg
Leonard had a slightly better ast:TO ratio
Through games 3-4-5, Leonard scored much more efficiently (and more in non blowout situations) and outrebounded, outstole, and outblocked Lebron with a better ast:TO ratio
Game 3 Lebron had 14 points and 0 TO in first quarter, then 8 points and 7 TOs for the last 3 quarters. LeBron had 22-5-7-5 with 7 TOs on 64%, Wade had 22-4-2-2 with 5 TOs on 67%. But over the last 3 quarters, LeBron had 8 points and 7 TOs to Wade's 20 points and 3 TOs. The Heat cut the lead from 15 to 9 without LeBron, after Wade subbed in for him, from the 5:00 to 1:00 mark of the 3rd quarter, but even with that help LeBron still lost. Game 4 Lebron had 9 points in first half and the Heat were blown out by 19 at halftime. He padded his stats from there, and he did not score on Leonard in the first half. Game 5 Lebron had 1 FG in 2nd quarter (2:30 mark) to bring the Heat within 5. Then he did not score again until the Heat were down 21 with 4:40 in the 3rd. LeBron shot 1-6 against Leonard this game.
Leonard clearly outplayed Lebron over the final 3 games, even with Lebron padding his stats, and Lebron failed to score consistently until after his teams were getting blown out. LeBron did not play well in the 2014 Finals after Game 2, he only padded his stats. LeBron's 2014 Finals was a repeat of the 2011 Finals after Game 2, the only differences being that LeBron's teammates disappeared along with him, and LeBron padded his stats to save face. So any notion that LeBron had an "amazing" series, and still lost because of his teammates is false. LeBron failed his team over the Final 3 games, and that's why he lost. He did not contribute offensively or defensively. The Spurs did have great offensive execution in this series, but a lot of that had to do with the poor defensive leadership of LeBron, who got exposed by Kawhi Leonard
Jordan also led the 1997 Bulls in 5/5 categories for the last 3 rounds of the 1997 Playoffs. Hakeem Olajuwon is the only other player to do that, for the entire 4-round 1994 Playoffs. The 1997 Bulls are the only team to win the title with only 2 double digit scorers in the playoffs. After Pippen's 19 ppg on a sub-par 42%, no other Bull reached 8 ppg for the playoffs. Jordan proved he could carry his team in all aspects to the championship, something that only Hakeem Olajuwon can also say.
1. Jordan's washed up leftovers in 35-year old Gary Payton and 40-year old Karl Malone shut down the Spurs two best players in Tony Parker and Tim Duncan (after Games 1-2) during the 2004 WCSF, right in between their 2nd and 3rd championships. The Spurs are the best dynasty of the post-Jordan era, but got shut down by the washed up leftovers of Jordan's era - clear proof of the disparity in quality of competition.
2. A much more watered down version of the Pacers made the 2000 Finals with no Antonio Davis, with Reggie at age 34, with Rik Smits in his last games, and with McKey and Chris Mullin barely playing. And they took Shaq and Kobe's Lakers to 6 games, without a top 10 defense. The 1994, 1995, and 1998 Pacers couldn't make the Finals with a top 10 defense and with most of those pieces in their prime.
3. Reggie Miller at age 33 and 34 outplayed Iverson in the 1999 and 2000 ECSF, and nearly outplayed MVP Iverson in the 2001 1st round at age 35. Reggie was never close to MVP consideration in the 90s, but outplayed Iverson who was an MVP of the inferior post-Jordan era.
4. Kevin Johnson is better than every PG of the post-Jordan era besides Steph Curry, yet only made 3 all-star teams in the stacked 80/90s, because the competition was far superior.
5. There are only two teams in history that beat 3 56+ win teams during the playoffs. The 1997 Bulls and the 1995 Rockets, who beat 4 57+ win teams. The 90s had the most 50 and 60 win teams of any decade, regardless of whether or not you adjust 1999 lockout teams for 82 games.
6. Karl Malone at age 40 outplayed Kobe and Shaq in their primes during the first round of the 2004 Playoffs against the Rockets.
Kobe had 24.4 - 5.6 - 6.2 and 2.8 spg on a poor 39% FG (44 mpg)
Shaq had 16.2 - 11.2 - 3.6 and 2.8 bpg on 52% and 30% FTs (42 mpg)
Malone had 18.0 - 10.4 - 3.2 and 1.8 spg on 49% and 59% FTs (39 mpg)
Now Shaq and Kobe are obviously top 10 players whereas Malone is only top 25, but it says a lot that Malone at 40 was still the best player for the Lakers, ahead of Kobe and Shaq, in the first round
7. PJ Brown at age 38 shut down Pau Gasol in the 2008 Finals, who is one of the best PFs of the post-Jordan era.
8. Latrell Sprewell shut down Vince Carter in the 2000 and 2001 Playoffs, after Vince's 2 best scoring seasons. Sprewell only made one second-team defense in the 90s. He also did a solid job on Kobe in the 2004 WCF.
9. Shaq is arguably the most dominant player of the 2000s, but got swept 5 times in the 90s even with good teams (whereas Jordan didn't have help in his playoff losses). Penny played great in the 1995 Finals, and the 1996 Magic were led to a 20-8 record by Penny in the 28 games that Shaq missed, giving them 60 wins for the season.
Shaq's 90s teams were a combined 56-31 (0.644 win%) without him. In 1999, Shaq's Lakers were only 14-13 without Rodman, but 17-6 with Rodman which would have been on pace to tie the best record in the league
10. The 90s had the best all-time defensive player at each of the 5 positions
PG - Gary Payton
SG - Michael Jordan
SF - Scottie Pippen
PF - Dennis Rodman
C - Hakeem Olajuwon (arguably with Russell)
Not only that, but 3 of the top 4 defenders of all-time, excluding Bill Russell, came from the 90s - Dennis Rodman, Hakeem Olajuwon, and David Robinson.
So Jordan was vastly superior than LeBron, both individually and in the team setting, both offensively, defensively, and in the clutch, and all while playing vastly superior competition in a vastly tougher era.
Now let's quickly summarize
Jordan played about 1/3 of his playoff games from age 33 to 35 (1996 - 1998) when he was clearly past his prime. This heavily deflated his career playoff stats, along with the other factors listed here. Up to 1993, Jordan averaged 6.6 apg in the playoffs, whereas LeBron averages 6.7 apg for his playoff career. Even with LeBron being in his prime, having more control of the playmaking, and playing way easier competition, he only has 0.1 more apg. And you can only imagine how much more assists Jordan would have following the 2004/05 rule changes when he had 25-6-5 pre-injury in 2001/02 at age 38.
For their playoff careers, Jordan (1.87 to 1) and LeBron's (1.95 to 1) AST:TO ratios are not that far apart.
Defense
Jordan crushes LeBron defensively. Even as a Wizard, Jordan was better on defense before his injury compared to almost all of LeBron's years on defense. Jordan played elite defense in 6 of 6 NBA Finals, whereas LeBron played adequate defense in only 2 of 9 NBA Finals in 2013 and 2016. We already went over this in detail, but here's a recap.
LeBron was outscored in the Finals by Tony Parker 2007, Jason Terry 2011, Kevin Durant 2012, all of whom increased their ppg and FG%. In 2014, he was outplayed by Kawhi Leonard over the final 3 games, and in 2015 he allowed Andre Iguodala to double his scoring average on more efficient shooting, and allowed Barnes to shoot over 50% on LeBron despite shooting 37% for the overall series. 2013 and 2016 were the only good defensive Finals he had and he still had trouble guarding Kawhi Leonard in 2013.
Clutch
And we've established that Jordan played way better competition, so there's no need to go over that. Outside of rebounding, LeBron doesn't have anything on Jordan.
Players Averaging 20+ PPG in the Playoffs when facing 2+ sub-90 PPG defenses
- Jordan has 0 playoff SERIES with a teammate averaging 25+ PPG. Kyrie Irving averaged 25+ PPG for the ENTIRE 2016 and 2017 Playoffs.
More
Now let's quickly summarize
Scoring
Jordan was clearly the superior scorer. He has a record 10 scoring titles to LeBron's 1. Jordan has a record 5 different playoff series averaging 40+ ppg to LeBron's 0. He also averaged 33+ ppg in 3 different NBA Finals, a tied record with Shaq and Jerry West, to LeBron's 2. LeBron did it in the 2015 Finals, while taking 33 shots/game on under 40% FG.
This is also without factoring in more favorable rule changes in the post-Jordan era, as Jordan at age 38 put up 25-6-5 in 2001/02 before his injury for 46 games. Tracy McGrady was the only player to average at least 25-6-5 by the end of the season.
Rebounding
LeBron is definitely a better rebounder. He averaged 11 rpg for the entire 2015 Playoffs, whereas Jordan only had double digit rebounds in one playoff series, the 1997 ECSF with 10.2 rpg.
Passing
Jordan is actually a better passer than LeBron. He averages less assists than LeBron for a few reasons.
1. Jordan played far superior competition
As we saw earlier, 18 of LeBron's 37 playoff opponents, almost half, had under 50 wins, whereas 27 of Jordan's 37 playoff opponents, almost 3/4, had 50+ wins. Jordan also beat 7 60+ win teams in his 6 title seasons. LeBron, Duncan, and Kobe (1999-2012) beat 6 60+ win teams combined in their entire playoff careers, even if you adjust lockout teams for 82 games. Had Jordan played sub-50 teams for half his playoff career it's pretty obvious that his assists would be higher.
2. The triangle offense
The triangle promotes shared playmaking amongst the team, unlike LeBron's pick and roll offenses where he controls all the playmaking. In the triangle, bigs average more assists and perimeter players average less assists. Shaq had his 2 best assist seasons under the triangle, and 4 of his 5 best assist seasons under the triangle. Rodman had his 3 best assist seasons under the triangle from 1996-1998.
On the other hand, Kobe had his 2 best assist seasons outside the triangle in 2005 and 2013, and Jordan averaged more assists in 2001/02 at age 38 with the Wizards, even with his knee injury, compared to any of his last 3 seasons under the triangle from 1996 to 1998. In spite of the triangle's limitations on individual assists, Jordan and LeBron are the only non-point guards with 6+ apg in 4 different Finals (LeBron did it 5 times). When Jordan had more control of the playmaking, he averaged 11.4 apg in the 1991 Finals, the highest by anyone in the Finals not named Magic Johnson.
3. Poor offensive help in the last 3peat
With Jordan's teammates struggling offensively, it obviously made it harder to get assists. In the 1996 title run, the Bulls became the only championship team since the 1964 Celtics where the 2nd and 3rd scorers both shot under 40% for the playoffs.
In the 1997 title run, Jordan became the only player to ever lead a championship team to the title with only one double digit scorer for the playoffs. Pippen had 19 ppg on a sub-par 42%, and all other Bulls failed to reach 8 ppg. The 1997 and 1998 Bulls have the two lowest scoring supporting casts by a winning team in the NBA Finals and Playoffs since 1954.
4. Jordan's age
Jordan was clearly the superior scorer. He has a record 10 scoring titles to LeBron's 1. Jordan has a record 5 different playoff series averaging 40+ ppg to LeBron's 0. He also averaged 33+ ppg in 3 different NBA Finals, a tied record with Shaq and Jerry West, to LeBron's 2. LeBron did it in the 2015 Finals, while taking 33 shots/game on under 40% FG.
This is also without factoring in more favorable rule changes in the post-Jordan era, as Jordan at age 38 put up 25-6-5 in 2001/02 before his injury for 46 games. Tracy McGrady was the only player to average at least 25-6-5 by the end of the season.
Rebounding
LeBron is definitely a better rebounder. He averaged 11 rpg for the entire 2015 Playoffs, whereas Jordan only had double digit rebounds in one playoff series, the 1997 ECSF with 10.2 rpg.
Passing
Jordan is actually a better passer than LeBron. He averages less assists than LeBron for a few reasons.
1. Jordan played far superior competition
As we saw earlier, 18 of LeBron's 37 playoff opponents, almost half, had under 50 wins, whereas 27 of Jordan's 37 playoff opponents, almost 3/4, had 50+ wins. Jordan also beat 7 60+ win teams in his 6 title seasons. LeBron, Duncan, and Kobe (1999-2012) beat 6 60+ win teams combined in their entire playoff careers, even if you adjust lockout teams for 82 games. Had Jordan played sub-50 teams for half his playoff career it's pretty obvious that his assists would be higher.
2. The triangle offense
The triangle promotes shared playmaking amongst the team, unlike LeBron's pick and roll offenses where he controls all the playmaking. In the triangle, bigs average more assists and perimeter players average less assists. Shaq had his 2 best assist seasons under the triangle, and 4 of his 5 best assist seasons under the triangle. Rodman had his 3 best assist seasons under the triangle from 1996-1998.
On the other hand, Kobe had his 2 best assist seasons outside the triangle in 2005 and 2013, and Jordan averaged more assists in 2001/02 at age 38 with the Wizards, even with his knee injury, compared to any of his last 3 seasons under the triangle from 1996 to 1998. In spite of the triangle's limitations on individual assists, Jordan and LeBron are the only non-point guards with 6+ apg in 4 different Finals (LeBron did it 5 times). When Jordan had more control of the playmaking, he averaged 11.4 apg in the 1991 Finals, the highest by anyone in the Finals not named Magic Johnson.
3. Poor offensive help in the last 3peat
With Jordan's teammates struggling offensively, it obviously made it harder to get assists. In the 1996 title run, the Bulls became the only championship team since the 1964 Celtics where the 2nd and 3rd scorers both shot under 40% for the playoffs.
In the 1997 title run, Jordan became the only player to ever lead a championship team to the title with only one double digit scorer for the playoffs. Pippen had 19 ppg on a sub-par 42%, and all other Bulls failed to reach 8 ppg. The 1997 and 1998 Bulls have the two lowest scoring supporting casts by a winning team in the NBA Finals and Playoffs since 1954.
Title teams with sub-70 PPG supporting casts for the overall playoffs
Post-1954 (Shot-Clock Era)
12. 2002 Lakers - 69.4 PPG
11. 2000 Lakers - 69.0 PPG
10. 1994 Rockets - 68.3 PPG
9. 2006 Heat - 67.8 PPG
8. 1993 Bulls - 67.3 PPG
7. 2012 Heat - 67.0 PPG
6. 1996 Bulls - 66.7 PPG
Title teams with sub-66 PPG supporting casts for the overall playoffs
Post-1954 (Shot Clock Era)
5. 1992 Bulls - 65.9 PPG
4. 2004 Pistons - 65.6 PPG
3. 1999 Spurs - 65.2 PPG
2. 1997 Bulls - 61.5 PPG
1. 1998 Bulls - 60.8 PPG
In the shot-clock era, Jordan has- 5 of the 8 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- 4 of the 6 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- 3 of the 5 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- The 2 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
Post-1954 (Shot-Clock Era)
12. 2002 Lakers - 69.4 PPG
11. 2000 Lakers - 69.0 PPG
10. 1994 Rockets - 68.3 PPG
9. 2006 Heat - 67.8 PPG
8. 1993 Bulls - 67.3 PPG
7. 2012 Heat - 67.0 PPG
6. 1996 Bulls - 66.7 PPG
Title teams with sub-66 PPG supporting casts for the overall playoffs
Post-1954 (Shot Clock Era)
5. 1992 Bulls - 65.9 PPG
4. 2004 Pistons - 65.6 PPG
3. 1999 Spurs - 65.2 PPG
2. 1997 Bulls - 61.5 PPG
1. 1998 Bulls - 60.8 PPG
In the shot-clock era, Jordan has- 5 of the 8 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- 4 of the 6 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- 3 of the 5 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- The 2 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- Jordan is the only player to lead multiple top 10 lowest-scoring playoff supporting casts among title teams
The only player to lead a lesser scoring supporting cast to the NBA Finals than the 1997 or 1998 Bulls is Allen Iverson on the 2001 Sixers. The 2001 Sixers' teammates outside of Iverson scored 60.3 PPG in the 22 playoff games Iverson played. Game 3 against the Bucks in which Iverson did not play is excluded from this calculation.
4. Jordan's age
Jordan played about 1/3 of his playoff games from age 33 to 35 (1996 - 1998) when he was clearly past his prime. This heavily deflated his career playoff stats, along with the other factors listed here. Up to 1993, Jordan averaged 6.6 apg in the playoffs, whereas LeBron averages 6.7 apg for his playoff career. Even with LeBron being in his prime, having more control of the playmaking, and playing way easier competition, he only has 0.1 more apg. And you can only imagine how much more assists Jordan would have following the 2004/05 rule changes when he had 25-6-5 pre-injury in 2001/02 at age 38.
For their playoff careers, Jordan (1.87 to 1) and LeBron's (1.95 to 1) AST:TO ratios are not that far apart.
Defense
Jordan crushes LeBron defensively. Even as a Wizard, Jordan was better on defense before his injury compared to almost all of LeBron's years on defense. Jordan played elite defense in 6 of 6 NBA Finals, whereas LeBron played adequate defense in only 2 of 9 NBA Finals in 2013 and 2016. We already went over this in detail, but here's a recap.
LeBron was outscored in the Finals by Tony Parker 2007, Jason Terry 2011, Kevin Durant 2012, all of whom increased their ppg and FG%. In 2014, he was outplayed by Kawhi Leonard over the final 3 games, and in 2015 he allowed Andre Iguodala to double his scoring average on more efficient shooting, and allowed Barnes to shoot over 50% on LeBron despite shooting 37% for the overall series. 2013 and 2016 were the only good defensive Finals he had and he still had trouble guarding Kawhi Leonard in 2013.
Clutch
Playoff game-winners/tyers with 24 seconds or less
- Jordan 9/18 (50%)
- LeBron 10/27 (37%)
Playoff game-winners/tyers with 25 seconds or less
- Jordan 10/19 (53%)
- LeBron 10/27 (37%)
Playoff game-winners/tyers with 10 seconds or less
- Jordan 7/15 (47%)
- LeBron 9/22 (41%)
Playoff game-winners/tyers with 5 seconds or less
- Jordan 5/11 (45%)
- LeBron 7/17 (41%)
Finals game-winners/tyers with 25 seconds or less
- Jordan 4/8 (50%)
- LeBron 0/6 (0%)
- Jordan 9/18 (50%)
- LeBron 10/27 (37%)
Playoff game-winners/tyers with 25 seconds or less
- Jordan 10/19 (53%)
- LeBron 10/27 (37%)
Playoff game-winners/tyers with 10 seconds or less
- Jordan 7/15 (47%)
- LeBron 9/22 (41%)
Playoff game-winners/tyers with 5 seconds or less
- Jordan 5/11 (45%)
- LeBron 7/17 (41%)
Finals game-winners/tyers with 25 seconds or less
- Jordan 4/8 (50%)
- LeBron 0/6 (0%)
And we've established that Jordan played way better competition, so there's no need to go over that. Outside of rebounding, LeBron doesn't have anything on Jordan.
Jordan at age 34 proved himself under one of the top 3 hardest defensive circumstances for a championship team. In the shot-clock era, only the
- 1997 Bulls
- 1999 Spurs
- 2004 Pistons
have won the championship while facing 2 sub-90 PPG defenses in the Playoffs.
All 3 teams that faced more than 2 sub-90 PPG defenses in the Playoffs
- 1998 Pacers (3)
- 1999 Knicks (3)
- 2004 Lakers (4)
failed to win the championship, confirming the harder circumstances become as a team faces more sub-90 defenses
The 2013 Grizzlies are the last sub-90 PPG defense in NBA history at 89.3 PPG allowed. So Jordan would no longer be facing defenses of comparable quality from 2014-present.
The 2013 Grizzlies are the last sub-90 PPG defense in NBA history at 89.3 PPG allowed. So Jordan would no longer be facing defenses of comparable quality from 2014-present.
The 1997 Bulls collective Playoff opponent win% was 0.686, the 2nd-highest of any Title team that played 4 rounds. Among Title teams that played 4 rounds, only the 1995 Rockets had a harder Playoff strength of schedule with a 0.726 collective Playoff opponent win%.
Under these incredibly hard circumstances, both in terms of competition and defense, Jordan at age 34 still put up 31-8-5 on 46% FG - 81% FT for the 1997 Playoffs and led the team in 5/5 categories for the last 3 rounds collectively.
All shot-clock era teams to face multiple sub-90 PPG defenses in one playoff run
- 1997 Bulls (2)
- 1998 Jazz (2)
- 1998 Pacers (3)
- 1999 Hawks (2)
- 1999 Pacers (2)
- 1999 Blazers (2)
- 1999 Spurs (2)
- 1999 Knicks (3)
- 2004 Pacers (2)
- 2004 Pistons (2)
- 2004 Lakers (4)
- 2012 Sixers (2)
The 2012 Sixers are the only team post-2004/05 rule changes to face two sub-90 PPG defenses, but this comes with multiple asterisks
1. The Sixers faced injured teams in both rounds of the 2012 Playoffs - Bulls with Derrick Rose missing all but 1 game and Joakim Noah missing 3 of 6 games in the 1st Round - Celtics with Avery Bradley missing 3 of 7 games in the ECSF, after starting every playoff game
2. The 2012 Bulls and 2012 Celtics also had much worse defensive numbers against the Western Conference. Their defensive numbers were heavily protected by playing most of their games against Eastern Conference teams, and they were not true sub-90 PPG defenses.
- 2012 Bulls = 94.1 PPG allowed vs West teams
- 2012 Celtics = 92.7 PPG allowed vs West teams
The 2012 Celtics had a losing 7-11 record vs West teams as well.
Players Averaging 20+ PPG in the Playoffs when facing 2+ sub-90 PPG defenses
Unless otherwise noted, these Playoff runs are against exactly 2 sub-90 PPG defenses
31.1 PPG - Michael Jordan (1997) - 31-8-5 on 46%
26.3 PPG - Karl Malone (1998) - 26-11-3 on 47%
24.5 PPG* - Kobe Bryant (2004) - 25-5-6 on 41%
23.2 PPG - Tim Duncan (1999) - 23-12-3 on 51%
21.5 PPG* - Shaquille O'Neal (2004) - 22-13-3 on 59%
21.5 PPG - Richard Hamilton (2004) - 22-5-4 on 45%
20.4 PPG** - Latrell Sprewell (1999) - 20-5-2 on 42%
20.2 PPG - Reggie Miller (1999) - 20-4-3 on 40%
*Shaq and Kobe faced 4 sub-90 PPG defenses, 2 sub-85 PPG defenses
**Sprewell faced 3 sub-85 PPG defenses, 4 sub-91 PPG defenses
Reggie Miller in 1998 was exactly 1 total point away from having 20 PPG against 3 sub-90 PPG defenses, but went scoreless in the 4th quarter of Game 7.
Under comparable statistical defensive circumstances to Jordan's in 1997 (not to mention competition in terms of collective opponent win%), no player has come close to Jordan's 1997 Playoffs performance, at age 34 and well past his prime no less.
Jordan had by far the highest volume of PPG under these circumstances at 31.1 PPG. No other player has even reached 26.5 PPG in the Playoffs against multiple sub-90 PPG defenses. Of any 20+ PPG player under these circumstances, Jordan had the highest FG% of any non-PF/C. and Jordan also led the Bulls in 5/5 categories for the last 3 rounds of the 1997 Playoffs collectively.
Again, post-2004/05 rule changes no team has faced 2 true sub-90 PPG defenses in any Playoffs due to the asterisks surrounding the 2012 Sixers' competition. Therefore there is little reason to believe even the 34-year old past-prime version of Jordan in 1997, let alone prime Jordan, would have any lesser production in any post-illegal defense Playoff run outside of maybe 2004 compared to his 1997 performance, and certainly not after the 2004/05 rule changes.
Again, post-2004/05 rule changes no team has faced 2 true sub-90 PPG defenses in any Playoffs due to the asterisks surrounding the 2012 Sixers' competition. Therefore there is little reason to believe even the 34-year old past-prime version of Jordan in 1997, let alone prime Jordan, would have any lesser production in any post-illegal defense Playoff run outside of maybe 2004 compared to his 1997 performance, and certainly not after the 2004/05 rule changes.
Jordan would have won more championships in LeBron's position
- The 1988 Bulls have the lowest number 2 scorer of any shot-clock era playoff team at 10.2 PPG, tied with the 1999 Heat. This makes Jordan the only player to make it out the 1st Round with such little help.
- Jordan made it to the 1989 ECF with his best teammate Pippen only averaging 13-8-4 on 46% in the Playoffs. Jordan beat two 50+ win teams before losing 4-2 to the 63-19 Pistons, who were 11-0 against non-Jordan teams in the 1989 Playoffs and 22-2 against non-Jordan teams in the 1989 and 1990 Playoffs combined. If there's any perimeter player you want carrying your team, it's Jordan, not LeBron
- LeBron played way easier East opponents, and that's why he made more Finals. Losing in the Finals proves that you wouldn't have made the Finals if you played in the other team's conference, since you would have lost to the champion sooner. LeBron's first year in the West, he didn't even MAKE THE PLAYOFFS and his 8 straight Finals streak was proven to be overrated
Of course Jordan didn't make so many Finals when he had to play Bird's Celtics, Isiah's Pistons, and the stacked 90s opponents compared to LeBron's easy road
- From 2006 to 2010, 4 of 8 teams LeBron beat in the Playoffs were 0.500 or worse
- 2007 - two 0.500 teams, the Pistons without Ben Wallace (17-13 record vs West)
- 2012 - Celtics had a losing 7-11 record vs West, no Avery Bradley due to injury
- 2013 - 3 teams under 50 wins each, a luxury Jordan never had
- 2014 - Paul George's Pacers in the ECF
- 2015 - Bulls with Gasol injured, Hawks with Korver injured
- 2016 - Raptors with Valanciunas injured
- 2017 - Raptors with Lowry injured, Celtics with Isaiah injured
- 2018 - Celtics without Kyrie or Hayward
- Jordan never lost to a team under 54 wins. The entire 2007 and 2017 East consisted of teams under 54 wins, as well as all of LeBron's 2012 and 2013 Playoff opponents (lockout records adjusted for 82 games). LeBron also lost to the 50-win Celtics in 2010
- The 2007 and 2008 Cavaliers were number 1 in least playoff PPG allowed. Jordan never had this luxury outside of two title seasons in 1991 and 1996.
- The 2008 Celtics went 7 games with an 8-seed 37-win Hawks team. The worst record team to ever push a champion to elimination.
- The 2014 Spurs went 7 games with an 8-seed 49-win Mavericks team. Replacing LeBron with Jordan would surely have guaranteed a win against the Celtics and Spurs.
- Including himself, LeBron had a 3-1 all-star advantage in the 2011 and 2014 Finals and a 3-2 all-star advantage in the 2012 and 2013 Finals. Jordan never lost any series with even a +1 all-star advantage including himself.
- The only time Jordan lost a series with an equal number of all-stars on both teams was the 1988 ECSF (Isiah Thomas and Jordan). The 1988 Bulls have the tied-lowest number 2 scorer on any shot-clock era playoff team.
- Playoff runs with a teammate averaging 22+ PPG
- Jordan - 0
- LeBron - 4 (2011, 2012, 2016, 2017)
More
- Looking at how the Jordan Era players had an easier time in the modern era
- Looking at how a 38-40 year old Jordan himself schooled the 2000s defenders
SECTION 3 - Jordan's "Weak" Defensive Competition Compared to Lebron/Kobe's "Advanced" Competition
- Proving the vast superiority of individual defenders of Jordan's era compared to the 2000s
- Destroying the myth that Jordan never played zone defense
- Proof that 80s/90s players would still have success guarding 2000s players without the 80s/90s rules
- Looking at how Jordan did against the 80s teams and why expansion did not make it easier to win championships
- Proof that Jordan's Competition was 80s-quality and far better than the 2000s era
- Looking at the truth of how the Bulls did without Jordan, and how other great teams did without their stars.
- Did Jordan really get any more special treatment than other superstars? Nope.
- Exposing the myths behind the great, but misunderstood, Wilt Chamberlain
- Looking at how Lebron got locked down by defenders of the 2000s era and comparing them to the vastly superior 80s/90s
- Destroying one of the media's biggest misconceptions regarding Lebron's solid but vastly overrated defense
- Lebron fans think no player in history could succeed if their teammates don't step up, and that Lebron is the only one who has carried a team on his back. Is that really the case?
- The real Jordan vs Lebron comparison
- The real Jordan vs Kobe comparison
- Kareem is great, but he is not even the greatest center of all-time, let alone the greatest of all-time.
- The full context behind Jordan's struggles without Pippen
- A look at how Jordan turned the Wizards around before his knee injury caught up to him
- Looking at Jordan's defensive impact in detail, both as a team player and 1 on 1 defender
- Looking at the strong evidence supporting that Jordan would have achieved more than what LeBron has in Cleveland and Miami
SECTION 21 - Hakeem Olajuwon: The Greatest Center of All-Time
- Hakeem Olajuwon is the best center of all-time, and there is strong evidence to prove it
SECTION 22 - Chris Paul: The Most Overrated Point Guard Of All-Time
- Chris Paul is an extremely overrated playoff performer and defender, and isn't even a top 5 PG of his own era, let alone all-time
SECTION 23 - Kevin Johnson: The Most Underrated Point Guard Of All-Time
- Kevin Johnson is an extremely underrated and under-appreciated point guard, who should have been a first-ballot Hall of Famer and considered a top-10 point guard of all-time
SECTION 24 - The Three Greatest Playoff Runs of All-Time
- Analyzing the three greatest individual playoff runs in NBA history
SECTION 25 - The Worst Finals Performances of All-Time
- Analyzing the worst performances in NBA Finals history
SECTION 26 - Jordan vs Russell
- Comparing the two players who won the most championships as the best player on their team
SECTION 27 - The Five Greatest Coaches of All-Time
- Taking a look at the greatest coaches in NBA history
SECTION 28 - The Least Deserving Finals MVPs of All-Time
- Taking a look at the players who least deserved to win their Finals MVPs
SECTION 29 - Refuting 10 Myths About Michael Jordan
- Refuting certain myths about Jordan, as well as abridging of some of the main points in earlier sections for easier reference.
SECTION 30 - The 20 Greatest Conference Finals Runs of All-Time
- Ranking the 20 greatest playoff runs in which a player played 3 rounds before losing prior to the NBA Finals
SECTION 31 - The 1970s: The Weakest Decade of the NBA's Post-Infancy
- Why the 1970s was the weakest decade of any era from 1960-present
SECTION 32 - The 10 Worst Supporting Casts on NBA Finals Teams (1960-Present)
- Examining the worst supporting casts on teams that reached the NBA Finals
SECTION 33 - The 10 Greatest Rookie Playoff Runs of All-Time
- The most impressive playoff runs in which rookies led their team to at least one series win
SECTION 21 - Hakeem Olajuwon: The Greatest Center of All-Time
- Hakeem Olajuwon is the best center of all-time, and there is strong evidence to prove it
SECTION 22 - Chris Paul: The Most Overrated Point Guard Of All-Time
- Chris Paul is an extremely overrated playoff performer and defender, and isn't even a top 5 PG of his own era, let alone all-time
SECTION 23 - Kevin Johnson: The Most Underrated Point Guard Of All-Time
- Kevin Johnson is an extremely underrated and under-appreciated point guard, who should have been a first-ballot Hall of Famer and considered a top-10 point guard of all-time
SECTION 24 - The Three Greatest Playoff Runs of All-Time
- Analyzing the three greatest individual playoff runs in NBA history
SECTION 25 - The Worst Finals Performances of All-Time
- Analyzing the worst performances in NBA Finals history
SECTION 26 - Jordan vs Russell
- Comparing the two players who won the most championships as the best player on their team
SECTION 27 - The Five Greatest Coaches of All-Time
- Taking a look at the greatest coaches in NBA history
SECTION 28 - The Least Deserving Finals MVPs of All-Time
- Taking a look at the players who least deserved to win their Finals MVPs
SECTION 29 - Refuting 10 Myths About Michael Jordan
- Refuting certain myths about Jordan, as well as abridging of some of the main points in earlier sections for easier reference.
SECTION 30 - The 20 Greatest Conference Finals Runs of All-Time
- Ranking the 20 greatest playoff runs in which a player played 3 rounds before losing prior to the NBA Finals
SECTION 31 - The 1970s: The Weakest Decade of the NBA's Post-Infancy
- Why the 1970s was the weakest decade of any era from 1960-present
SECTION 32 - The 10 Worst Supporting Casts on NBA Finals Teams (1960-Present)
- Examining the worst supporting casts on teams that reached the NBA Finals
SECTION 33 - The 10 Greatest Rookie Playoff Runs of All-Time
- The most impressive playoff runs in which rookies led their team to at least one series win
Astounding analysis. Drops of bias here and there, but the overwhelming end impression is - nobody touches the overall argument
ReplyDeleteReading this as a LeBron fan this HURTS, and it did make my salt levels rise, but I also can't argue anything you wrote. Even though I personally never saw LeBron as better than Jordan, this just further backs that analysis
ReplyDeleteLeBron James greatest passer of all time Michael Jordan was a ball hog
ReplyDelete