Most sections on this site are quite lengthy, and it takes quite a bit of time to read through each one. I have made this section to abridge some of the main points that are addressed in many other articles throughout this site, so that the points and sources on this site can be referenced more easily.
Main articles
- Larry Bird, When the Game Was Ours
One of the favorite points that Jordan critics like to bring out of context is his lack of success in non-Pippen years. Of course they ignore that none of those seasons were prime years, and the majority of them were seasons where Jordan suffered (85/86, 01/02) or was coming off a season-ending injury (02/03). Pippen's absence was simply a correlation with Jordan's lack of success, while the actual causal factors were inexperience in the early years, old age in the later years, and injuries.
Such critics also fail to recognize that Scottie Pippen was not a star the moment he entered the league, it took a few years before he was a reliable second option. Even with Pippen on the team, Jordan still had to carry mediocre supporting casts in the 1988 and 1989 Playoffs.
It's also worth noting Jordan was just 0.6 rpg and 0.1 bpg shy of leading the 1989 Bulls in 5/5 categories for the regular season, further emphasizing the huge load he had to carry to even get them into the playoffs. Jordan's 1989 Playoff run has a strong case for being the greatest non-Finals playoff run of all-time due to how well carried a mediocre supporting cast against a high level of competition.
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| Factoring in competition and one of the worst supporting casts of all-time, Jordan's 1989 Playoffs is probably the greatest non-Finals playoff run of all-time, and better even than some Finals and Title runs of other players. |
1989 NBA Playoffs
Jordan
34.8 - 7.0 - 7.6 on 51% FG - 80% FT
Pippen
13.1 - 7.6 - 3.9 on 46% FG - 64% FT
Cartwright
Cartwright
11.8 - 7.1 - 1.2 on 49% FG - 70% FT
Hodges
11.2 - 1.5 - 3.6 on 41% FG - 71% FT
Grant
10.8 - 9.8 - 2.1 on 52% FG - 80% FT
The Bulls defeated two 50+ win teams in the Cavs and Knicks, prior to facing the 63-19 Pistons in the ECF. The 1989 Pistons were undefeated in the playoffs against non-Jordan teams, with their only two losses coming due to Jordan himself. The 1989 Pistons' 15-2 playoff record is tied for the 2nd-best in 4-round format history after the 2001 Lakers (1983 Sixers only played 3 rounds).
Let us take a look at how Jordan did with a supporting cast that was worse than even the 2007 Cavs, often cited as one of the worst supporting casts to make the Finals. With such a mediocre supporting cast, Jordan took an otherwise undefeated playoff team to 6 games. Had it not been for Jordan, the 1989 Pistons would have tied or passed the 2001 Lakers 15-1 playoff record.
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| With a worse team than the 2007 Cavs, Jordan took a better team than the 2007 Spurs, the 1989 Pistons, to 6 games |
1989 ECF best scoring teammates
Hodges 12.0 ppg on 45%
Cartwright 10.5 ppg on 41%
Pippen 9.7 ppg on 40%
Grant 9.3 ppg on 50%
2007 Finals best scoring teammates
Gooden 12.8 ppg on 50%
Gibson 10.8 ppg on 44%
Pavlovic 9.8 ppg on 36%
Varejao 7.5 ppg on 67%
Jordan also played great in the 1989 ECF (30-6-7-2 on 46%) as opposed to LeBron in the 2007 Finals (22-7-7 on 36%, 5.8 TOpg), so he was creating much more opportunities for his teammates, yet they still had worse production. The Cavs were also ranked 2 of 30 in rebounding, as opposed to the Bulls' 22 of 25 rank in rebounding, and held the Spurs to 85 or less in 3 of 4 games.
The 2007 Cavs clearly had far superior defensive and rebounding help than the 1989 Bulls, further evidenced by the Cavs' frontcourt holding Duncan 10% below his season average at just under 45% FG, the 2nd-worst FG% of Duncan's Finals career after 2005.
The 2007 Cavs clearly had far superior defensive and rebounding help than the 1989 Bulls, further evidenced by the Cavs' frontcourt holding Duncan 10% below his season average at just under 45% FG, the 2nd-worst FG% of Duncan's Finals career after 2005.
In the modern era, the most commonly cited examples of players carrying mediocre supporting casts to the Finals are Iverson in 2001, Kidd in 2002 and 2003, and LeBron in 2007. What do of these runs have in common? They all played mediocre competition in all rounds prior to reaching the Finals, a luxury Jordan never had at any point of his playoff career.
The best teams faced in the Eastern Conference of all of those runs were
- The 2001 Bucks at 52-30 with Ray Allen and Glenn Robinson
- The 2002 Celtics at 49-33 with Pierce and Walker
- The 2003 Pistons at 50-32 before Rasheed Wallace or Larry Brown's arrival
- The 2007 Pistons at 53-29 after the departure of 4x DPOY Ben Wallace and Larry Brown
The 2007 Pistons (53-29), 2002 Nets (52-30), and 2003 Pistons (50-32) in that order have the 3 worst records for a 1-seed since the introduction of the 4-round format. When the top seed in the conference is a weak team with a mediocre record for a 1-seed, of course a weak team will automatically make the Finals by default.
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| As in the case of Iverson, Kidd, and LeBron's Finals runs of the 2000s, it is much easier to lead a mediocre team deep in the playoffs when every opponent in your conference is also mediocre. |
The 2002 Nets faced 3 sub-50 teams prior to the Finals, and the 2007 Cavs faced two 0.500 teams prior to facing a shell of the formerly great Pistons team, luxuries that Jordan was never afforded. In all modern examples of carrying mediocre teams to the Finals, the common factor was easy competition.
There is no reason to believe Jordan would not have carried these mediocre teams with more success on the team and individual levels against that easy level of competition, since he already proved himself in 1989 against infinitely better competition than the 2001-2003 and 2007 East.
After all, even the 1989 Cavs that Jordan's Bulls beat in the 1st round were better record-wise than any of the East teams in the aforementioned Finals runs, while playing in a much tougher conference. And he did so with an even worse supporting cast, aside from perhaps the 2002 and 2003 Nets (Jefferson and Martin never had 10 or 13 ppg, respectively, in a playoff series without Jason Kidd's passing to set them up.)
It's clearly much harder to make the Finals when your ECF opponent is an otherwise undefeated playoff team in the 1989 Pistons, tied for the 2nd best playoff record in 4-round format history, rather than facing the
- 2001 Bucks
- 2002 Celtics
- 2003 Pistons (no Rasheed / Larry Brown)
- 2007 Pistons (no Ben Wallace / Larry Brown)
Beating two 50+ win teams (2001-2003 and 2007 Eastern Conference Champions only faced a maximum of one 50+ win team apiece prior to the Finals) and taking an otherwise undefeated playoff team to 6 games and losing in the ECF of a stacked conference is clearly a much greater accomplishment and a much greater instance of carrying a mediocre supporting cast than beating 3 mediocre teams to make the Finals in a weak conference.
After all, even the 1989 Cavs that Jordan's Bulls beat in the 1st round were better record-wise than any of the East teams in the aforementioned Finals runs, while playing in a much tougher conference. And he did so with an even worse supporting cast, aside from perhaps the 2002 and 2003 Nets (Jefferson and Martin never had 10 or 13 ppg, respectively, in a playoff series without Jason Kidd's passing to set them up.)
It's clearly much harder to make the Finals when your ECF opponent is an otherwise undefeated playoff team in the 1989 Pistons, tied for the 2nd best playoff record in 4-round format history, rather than facing the
- 2001 Bucks
- 2002 Celtics
- 2003 Pistons (no Rasheed / Larry Brown)
- 2007 Pistons (no Ben Wallace / Larry Brown)
Beating two 50+ win teams (2001-2003 and 2007 Eastern Conference Champions only faced a maximum of one 50+ win team apiece prior to the Finals) and taking an otherwise undefeated playoff team to 6 games and losing in the ECF of a stacked conference is clearly a much greater accomplishment and a much greater instance of carrying a mediocre supporting cast than beating 3 mediocre teams to make the Finals in a weak conference.
Aside from the 1989 Playoffs, we can see that Jordan carried the Bulls even when both Pippen and Rodman were on the team. The 1997 Bulls are the only title team that had two double digit playoff scorers - Jordan and Pippen at 19 ppg on 42%. No other Bull even reached 8 ppg in the Finals. After the 3-game 1st round series against the Bullets, Jordan led the Bulls in 5/5 categories for the last 3 rounds, tying Rodman in rebounds after the Bullets series.
The 1997 and 1998 Bulls also have the two lowest scoring supporting casts of any post-1954 NBA Finals team to win the championship.
1994 Rockets - 59.3 ppg
2006 Heat - 58.2 ppg
1999 Spurs - 57.4 ppg
1997 Bulls - 55.5 ppg
1998 Bulls - 54.5 ppg
2006 Heat - 58.2 ppg
1999 Spurs - 57.4 ppg
1997 Bulls - 55.5 ppg
1998 Bulls - 54.5 ppg
The only sub-56 ppg supporting casts to win an NBA Finals since 1954 were led by Jordan at 34 and 35 years old. On top of the 1989 playoff run, this clearly shows that a prime Jordan wouldn't have any problems carrying a team. After all, he was carrying the two biggest offensive loads on a post-1954 championship team in Finals history, at 34 and 35 years old no less.
Title teams with sub-70 PPG supporting casts for the overall playoffs
Post-1954 (Shot-Clock Era)
12. 2002 Lakers - 69.4 PPG
11. 2000 Lakers - 69.0 PPG
10. 1994 Rockets - 68.3 PPG
9. 2006 Heat - 67.8 PPG
8. 1993 Bulls - 67.3 PPG
7. 2012 Heat - 67.0 PPG
6. 1996 Bulls - 66.7 PPG
Title teams with sub-66 PPG supporting casts for the overall playoffs
Post-1954 (Shot Clock Era)
5. 1992 Bulls - 65.9 PPG
4. 2004 Pistons - 65.6 PPG
3. 1999 Spurs - 65.2 PPG
2. 1997 Bulls - 61.5 PPG
1. 1998 Bulls - 60.8 PPG
In the shot-clock era, Jordan has
- 5 of the 8 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- 4 of the 6 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- 3 of the 5 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- The 2 lowest scoring playoff supporting casts for title teams
- Jordan is the only player to lead multiple top 10 lowest-scoring playoff supporting casts among title teams
The only player to lead a lesser scoring supporting cast to the NBA Finals than the 1997 or 1998 Bulls is Allen Iverson on the 2001 Sixers. The 2001 Sixers' teammates outside of Iverson scored 60.3 PPG in the 22 playoff games Iverson played. Game 3 against the Bucks in which Iverson did not play is excluded from this calculation.
Myth #2 - Jordan rarely guarded the other team's best perimeter player
Myth #2 - Jordan rarely guarded the other team's best perimeter player
Main article
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| Even as an old man on the Wizards, Jordan did guard and shut down some of the top scorers in the league pre-knee injury |
This is easily refuted by video evidence. The reality is that Jordan guarded the opposing team's top perimeter threat more often than any other elite offensive perimeter player in NBA history.
It was not until the last 3peat, when Jordan was 33-35 years old, that Pippen guarded some perimeter threats more often, and even then there are notable exceptions
Here are examples exclusive to Jordan's playoff career. This list is not complete.
Adrian Dantley - 1988
James Worthy - 1991 (brief stretches)
Kevin Johnson - 1993
Penny Hardaway - 1996
Rod Strickland - 1997
Steve Smith - 1997
Reggie Miller - 1998
John Stockton - 1997, 1998 (brief stretches)
FACT: In every NBA Finals, Jordan guarded a top 5 or top 10 all-time PG or SG
FACT: In every NBA Finals, Jordan guarded a top 5 or top 10 all-time PG or SG
Even in the 2001/02 season as a Wizard, Jordan often guarded and shut down the top perimeter players at 38 years old despite dealing with multiple pre-existing injuries. Unfortunately, due to Jordan's knee injury in the 46th game of the season, he could not do this nearly as often afterwards.
Examples from the 2001/02 season
Paul Pierce - top 3 in PPG
Vince Carter - top 7 in PPG
Peja Stojakovic - top 16 in PPG
Shawn Marion - 19 ppg on 47% in 2001/02 season
Myth #3 - Jordan faced weak team competition
Main articles
This myth is refuted by both statistical and video evidence. Let us begin with statistical evidence.
1. The Bulls defeated 7 60+ win teams in their 6 title seasons, the most by any team in one decade. For comparison, Kobe (starter years), Duncan, and LeBron have beaten a combined 6 60+ win teams, even if you were to adjust lockout teams for 82 games.
2. During the playoffs, each of the 7 championship teams from 1992 to 1998 beat either
- 2 60+ win teams (4 times)
- 3 50+ win teams (6 times)
- or both (3 times)
Of the 18 NBA champions from 1999 to 2016 (adjusting lockouts for 82 games), they beat
- 2 60+ win teams (1 time)
- 3 50+ win teams (10 times)
- or both (0 times)
3. The 1997 Bulls and 1995 Rockets are the only teams to beat 3 56+ win teams in a playoff run. The 1995 Rockets beat 4 57+ win teams.
4. Only 6 championship teams have beaten 2 60+ win teams in the playoffs.
- 1973 Knicks
- 1993 Bulls
- 1995 Rockets
- 1996 Bulls
- 1997 Bulls
- 2006 Heat
Four of those six were in the 1990s.
The weak "argument" that expansion watered down the league and inflated records is often brought up against these statistical facts. This is also easily refuted through other statistical measures.
Across both the 90s and post-90s era, sub-50 win teams have been beaten with equal ease. Jordan, Kobe (starter years), Duncan, and LeBron are a combined 48-1 against sub-50 teams in the playoffs, with lockouts adjusted for 82 games. The one loss was by Duncan at age 34 against the 2011 Grizzlies.
If win totals were inflated in the 90s due to expansion, this would suggest that sub-50 win teams in the post-90s would be harder to defeat, when this is not the case. If anything, the sub-50 teams of the 1990s were actually of higher quality than modern sub-50 win teams. In the 1990s there were 2 sub-50 teams that made the Finals; the 1995 Rockets and 1999 Knicks (44-38 adjusted for 82 games), with the Rockets winning it all.
Only one sub-50 team has made the Finals from 2000-2016, the 2003 Nets at 49-33. So in reality it was the 90s who had higher quality sub-50 teams, as 2 sub-50 teams made the Finals while beating at least 3 50+ teams apiece (4 57+ win teams for the Rockets, the highest collective win% of playoff opponents in a Championship/Finals run), with the Rockets also beating 2 60+ teams. The 2003 Nets, on the other hand, are the only sub-50 team in 17 post-90s seasons to make the Finals, and only because the East was so bad that there was one 50-win team in the whole conference at exactly 50 wins, the worst record for a 1-seed in the 4-round format.
As for the 1980s, the Lakers beat 0 50+ win teams to make the 1982, 1984, and 1987 Finals, including two losing teams in 1987 alone. The only team since 1987 to face two 0.500 or worse teams on the way to the Finals are the 2007 Cavs. These kinds of luxuries were never available in the 90s on the way to the Finals.
For comparison, Jordan faced two non-winning teams in his entire playoff career (1991 Knicks, 1992 Heat), yet the 1987 Lakers and 2007 Cavs matched that in one playoff run alone. The 1980s Celtics faced a 0.500 Rockets team in 1980 and 5 consecutive losing teams in the 1984-1988 1st Rounds, for a total of 6 non-winning playoff teams; three times as many non-winning teams as Jordan's Bulls faced.
(0.726) - 1995 Rockets (238-90)
(0.686) - 1997 Bulls (225-103)
(0.674) - 2016 Cavaliers (221-107)
(0.671) - 2002 Lakers (220-108)
(0.668) - 1993 Bulls (219-109)
(0.668) - 2001 Lakers (219-109)
(0.665) - 2011 Mavericks (218-110)
(0.662) - 2005 Spurs (217-111)
(0.659) - 2014 Spurs (216-112)
(0.652) - 1998 Bulls (214-114)
(0.652) - 2006 Heat (214-114)
(0.652) - 2009 Lakers (214-114)
(0.649) - 1994 Rockets (213-115)
(0.649) - 1996 Bulls (213-115)
(0.646) - 2000 Lakers (212-116)
(0.637) - 2015 Warriors (209-119)
(0.631) - 2007 Spurs (207-121)
(0.631) - 2010 Lakers (207-121)
(0.625) - 2004 Pistons (205-123)
(0.622) - 2017 Warriors (204-124)
(0.621) - 2012 Heat (164-100)
(0.619) - 1992 Bulls (203-125)
(0.619) - 2003 Spurs (203-125)
(0.613) - 1990 Pistons (201-127)
(0.604) - 2008 Celtics (198-130)
(0.601) - 1977 Blazers (197-131)
(0.595) - 1978 Bullets (195-133)
(0.595) - 1989 Pistons (195-133)
(0.590) - 1999 Spurs (118-82)
(0.588) - 1985 Lakers (193-135)
(0.582) - 1991 Bulls (191-137)
(0.581) - 2013 Heat (190-137)
(0.573) - 1986 Celtics (188-140)
(0.567) - 1984 Celtics (186-142)
(0.564) - 1988 Lakers (185-143)
(0.540) - 1987 Lakers (177-151)
1990s Bulls have the most spots in the top 10 with 3
1990s Bulls and 2000s Lakers have the most spots in the top 15 with 4 apiece
Since we cannot base everything purely on statistics, there is also video evidence proving that Jordan's competition would not have any issue competing and winning against dynasties of the post-Jordan era.
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| Jordan's leftovers, after long having passed their primes, proved that they could more than compete with the defending champion Spurs in between their 2003 and 2005 title seasons |
In the 2003 WCSF, the Lakers lost to the Spurs who went on to win the championship. Enter a 40 year old Karl Malone and 35 year old Gary Payton
In the 2004 1st round, Tony Parker averaged 21 ppg and 8.5 apg on 53% and 69% 3PT. In the 2004 WCSF vs a 35 year old Gary Payton, He was shut down to 16.7 ppg on 38%, including Game 5 in which Parker never scored once on Payton.
In the 2004 WCSF, prime Tim Duncan averaged 27 ppg on 65% in the 2 wins. Then in the 4 losses, Duncan had 17.5 ppg on 38% with 4+ turnovers per game, and very rarely scored on 40 year old Malone. Almost all his points in the 4 losses came on Shaq.
Even after Jordan's leftovers had long passed their prime, they still proved they could more than compete against the defending champion Spurs - the most successful organization of the post-Jordan era - in between their 2003 and 2005 titles. There's no reason to believe that many of Jordan's prime opponents could not have won multiple championships had they competed in the 2000s/2010s.
In the 2004 1st round, Tony Parker averaged 21 ppg and 8.5 apg on 53% and 69% 3PT. In the 2004 WCSF vs a 35 year old Gary Payton, He was shut down to 16.7 ppg on 38%, including Game 5 in which Parker never scored once on Payton.
In the 2004 WCSF, prime Tim Duncan averaged 27 ppg on 65% in the 2 wins. Then in the 4 losses, Duncan had 17.5 ppg on 38% with 4+ turnovers per game, and very rarely scored on 40 year old Malone. Almost all his points in the 4 losses came on Shaq.
Even after Jordan's leftovers had long passed their prime, they still proved they could more than compete against the defending champion Spurs - the most successful organization of the post-Jordan era - in between their 2003 and 2005 titles. There's no reason to believe that many of Jordan's prime opponents could not have won multiple championships had they competed in the 2000s/2010s.
There is no need to compare Jordan to 80s competition, since Jordan swept the 2x defending champion Pistons in 1991 when he had consistent help. The Pistons were coming off of 3 straight Finals appearances and had made their 5th straight ECF. They also had the number 1 defense in the league, the DPOY, and the same starting lineup as the 1990 championship team.
Myth #4 - Jordan faced weak individual matchups
SECTION 7 - The Myth that Jordan Played Weak Competition in the 80s/90s
SECTION 18 - Michael Jordan's Wizards Years
SECTION 19 - The Case for Jordan as the Best Perimeter Defender of All-Time
This is easily refuted by video evidence, as shown earlier
Here are notable offensive threats that Jordan guarded in the playoffs. This list is not complete.
Adrian Dantley - 1988
Charles Barkley - 1990 (brief stretches)
James Worthy - 1991 (brief stretches)
Kevin Johnson - 1993
Penny Hardaway - 1996
Rod Strickland - 1997
Steve Smith - 1997
Reggie Miller - 1998
John Stockton - 1997, 1998 (brief stretches)
FACT: In every NBA Finals, Jordan guarded a top 5 or 10 all-time PG or SG
Even in the 2001/02 season as a Wizard, Jordan often guarded and shut down the top perimeter players at 38 years old despite dealing with multiple pre-existing injuries. Unfortunately, due to Jordan's knee injury in the 46th game of the season, he could not do this nearly as often afterwards.
Examples from the 2001/02 season
Paul Pierce - top 3 in PPG
Vince Carter - top 7 in PPG
Peja Stojakovic - top 16 in PPG
Shawn Marion - 19 ppg on 47% in 2001/02 season
Another common allegation that Jordan critics love to parrot is the notion that he was guarded by "short white guys" and "bums." The reality is that Jordan has been guarded by more DPOY-winning perimeter players in the playoffs than any other perimeter star in NBA history.
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| Jordan has been guarded by 4 different DPOY winners in the playoffs, multiple times in the case of Dennis Rodman. No other perimeter player has been guarded by nearly as many DPOYs in playoff series. |
They are
- Sidney Moncrief (1985)
- Alvin Robertson (1990)
- Dennis Rodman (1988, 1989, 1990, 1991)
- Gary Payton (1996)
The only perimeter DPOY of his era that Jordan did not meet in the playoffs was Michael Cooper. In the post-Jordan era, only Ron Artest and Kawhi Leonard have won the DPOY as perimeter players. Even Leonard's DPOYs came after the weakest 3-year stretch in the history of the award (Chandler, Gasol, Noah) or in other words, easier individual DPOY competition.
Other notable Jordan defenders in playoff meetings include
- Dennis Johnson (1986, 1987)
- Joe Dumars (1988, 1989, 1990, 1991)
- Gerald Wilkins (1989, 1991, 1992, 1993)
- Anthony Mason (1992, 1993, 1996, 1998)
- Xavier McDaniel (1992)
- Cliff Robinson (1992)
- Doc Rivers (1993)
- Derek Harper (1996)
- Nick Anderson (1996)
- Voshon Lenard (1997)
- Jamal Mashburn (1997)
- Derrick McKey (1998)
- Bryon Russell (1997, 1998)
- Shandon Anderson (1997, 1998)
The height argument is irrelevant for two reasons. Firstly, Jordan did face plenty of tall and long defenders, such as Rodman, Wilkins, Mason, McDaniel, Cliff Robinson, Nick Anderson, Jamal Mashburn, Derrick Mckey, etc.
Secondly, the majority of all-time great offensive superstars have had their hardest time against smaller defenders, both big men and perimeter players. Here are some examples
Kareem vs Thurmond
Wilt vs Russell - Wilt's ppg decreased in all playoff meetings with Russell
Dirk vs Haslem
Duncan's 41.9% FG in the 2005 Finals is his 2nd-worst FG% of any playoff series in his career, after the 2016 WCSF at age 40, the last series of his career.
Durant vs Tony Allen
There are other examples of smaller defenders doing a great job against bigger superstars, although they may not have been the most difficult defensive matchup for these players.
Shaq vs Duncan
In the 2002 WCSF (no video footage available, unfortuntately) Shaq shot 44.7% FG in large part due to Duncan's defense, with 36-year old David Robinson missing two games due to back injury. This is the 2nd-worst FG% of Shaq's career in any playoff series, after the 2008 1st Round at age 36 with the Suns.
Aside from individual matchups, it is also worth noting that Jordan at age 34 proved himself under one of the top 3 hardest defensive circumstances for a championship team. In the shot-clock era, only the
- 1997 Bulls
- 1999 Spurs
- 2004 Pistons
have won the championship while facing 2 sub-90 PPG defenses in the Playoffs.
All 3 teams that faced more than 2 sub-90 PPG defenses in the Playoffs
- 1998 Pacers (3)
- 1999 Knicks (3)
- 2004 Lakers (4)
failed to win the championship, confirming the harder circumstances become as a team faces more sub-90 defenses
The 2013 Grizzlies are the last sub-90 PPG defense in NBA history at 89.3 PPG allowed. So Jordan would no longer be facing defenses of comparable quality from 2014-present.
The 2013 Grizzlies are the last sub-90 PPG defense in NBA history at 89.3 PPG allowed. So Jordan would no longer be facing defenses of comparable quality from 2014-present.
The 1997 Bulls collective Playoff opponent win% was 0.686, the 2nd-highest of any Title team that played 4 rounds. Among Title teams that played 4 rounds, only the 1995 Rockets had a harder Playoff strength of schedule with a 0.726 collective Playoff opponent win%.
Under these incredibly hard circumstances, both in terms of competition and defense, Jordan at age 34 still put up 31-8-5 on 46% FG - 81% FT for the 1997 Playoffs and led the team in 5/5 categories for the last 3 rounds collectively.
All shot-clock era teams to face multiple sub-90 PPG defenses in one playoff run
- 1997 Bulls (2)
- 1998 Jazz (2)
- 1998 Pacers (3)
- 1999 Hawks (2)
- 1999 Pacers (2)
- 1999 Blazers (2)
- 1999 Spurs (2)
- 1999 Knicks (3)
- 2004 Pacers (2)
- 2004 Pistons (2)
- 2004 Lakers (4)
- 2012 Sixers (2)
The 2012 Sixers are the only team post-2004/05 rule changes to face two sub-90 PPG defenses, but this comes with multiple asterisks
1. The Sixers faced injured teams in both rounds of the 2012 Playoffs - Bulls with Derrick Rose missing all but 1 game and Joakim Noah missing 3 of 6 games in the 1st Round - Celtics with Avery Bradley missing 3 of 7 games in the ECSF, after starting every playoff game
2. The 2012 Bulls and 2012 Celtics also had much worse defensive numbers against the Western Conference. Their defensive numbers were heavily protected by playing most of their games against Eastern Conference teams, and they were not true sub-90 PPG defenses.
- 2012 Bulls = 94.1 PPG allowed vs West teams
- 2012 Celtics = 92.7 PPG allowed vs West teams
The 2012 Celtics had a losing 7-11 record vs West teams as well.
Players Averaging 20+ PPG in the Playoffs when facing 2+ sub-90 PPG defenses
Unless otherwise noted, these Playoff runs are against exactly 2 sub-90 PPG defenses
31.1 PPG - Michael Jordan (1997) - 31-8-5 on 46%
26.3 PPG - Karl Malone (1998) - 26-11-3 on 47%
24.5 PPG* - Kobe Bryant (2004) - 25-5-6 on 41%
23.2 PPG - Tim Duncan (1999) - 23-12-3 on 51%
21.5 PPG* - Shaquille O'Neal (2004) - 22-13-3 on 59%
21.5 PPG - Richard Hamilton (2004) - 22-5-4 on 45%
20.4 PPG** - Latrell Sprewell (1999) - 20-5-2 on 42%
20.2 PPG - Reggie Miller (1999) - 20-4-3 on 40%
*Shaq and Kobe faced 4 sub-90 PPG defenses, 2 sub-85 PPG defenses
**Sprewell faced 3 sub-85 PPG defenses, 4 sub-91 PPG defenses
Reggie Miller in 1998 was exactly 1 total point away from having 20 PPG against 3 sub-90 PPG defenses, but went scoreless in the 4th quarter of Game 7.
Under comparable statistical defensive circumstances to Jordan's in 1997 (not to mention competition in terms of collective opponent win%), no player has come close to Jordan's 1997 Playoffs performance, at age 34 and well past his prime no less.
Jordan had by far the highest volume of PPG under these circumstances at 31.1 PPG. No other player has even reached 26.5 PPG in the Playoffs against multiple sub-90 PPG defenses. Of any 20+ PPG player under these circumstances, Jordan had the highest FG% of any non-PF/C. and Jordan also led the Bulls in 5/5 categories for the last 3 rounds of the 1997 Playoffs collectively.
Again, post-2004/05 rule changes no team has faced 2 true sub-90 PPG defenses in any Playoffs due to the asterisks surrounding the 2012 Sixers' competition. Therefore there is little reason to believe even the 34-year old past-prime version of Jordan in 1997, let alone prime Jordan, would have any lesser production in any post-illegal defense Playoff run outside of maybe 2004 compared to his 1997 performance, and certainly not after the 2004/05 rule changes.
Again, post-2004/05 rule changes no team has faced 2 true sub-90 PPG defenses in any Playoffs due to the asterisks surrounding the 2012 Sixers' competition. Therefore there is little reason to believe even the 34-year old past-prime version of Jordan in 1997, let alone prime Jordan, would have any lesser production in any post-illegal defense Playoff run outside of maybe 2004 compared to his 1997 performance, and certainly not after the 2004/05 rule changes.
The myth that Jordan faced inferior defenders can also be easily refuted by looking at how Jordan did in the 2001/02 season against modern competition, prior to his knee injury
Before the 2001/02 season started, Jordan was already dealing with
- having to skip 3 days of practice before the season opener in MSG because of fluid buildup in his knee
- recovering from 2 broken ribs (against Artest) and back spasms
- tendinitis in his knee and wrist
- and during the season Jordan had fluid drained from his knee multiple times
- recovering from 2 broken ribs (against Artest) and back spasms
- tendinitis in his knee and wrist
- and during the season Jordan had fluid drained from his knee multiple times
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| It was only after his knee injury that Jordan's time as a Wizard started to become a failure. |
In the 46 games that Jordan played in 01/02 before the injury, he averaged
25.1 - 6.2 - 5.3 - 1.5 - 0.5 on 42%
points - rebounds - assists - steals - blocks
25.1 - 6.2 - 5.3 - 1.5 - 0.5 on 42%
points - rebounds - assists - steals - blocks
Tracy McGrady was the only player with at least 25-6-5 at the end of the 2001/02 season, yet that is what Jordan averaged pre-knee injury at age 38.
Jordan's numbers were also improving as the season went on.
In his last 20 games up to the injury he averaged
Jordan's numbers were also improving as the season went on.
In his last 20 games up to the injury he averaged
27.5 - 6.4 - 5.2 - 1.3 - 0.5 on 44%
In his last 10 games up to the injury he averaged
29.7 - 6.6 - 6.1 - 1.2 - 0.3 on 47%
Further proving that it was recovery from injuries at his old age, not defense, that mainly hindered Jordan. Jordan would also set a record in 2002/03 by becoming the oldest person to average 20 ppg in a season at ages 39/40, further destroying this myth.
Jordan played in the most stacked era at the guard position defensively.
All Guards who won DPOY
Sidney Moncrief - 1983 and 1984
Alvin Robertson - 1986
Michael Cooper - 1987
Michael Jordan - 1988
Gary Payton - 1996
All Guards who were 2nd place in DPOY
Sidney Moncrief - 1985
Alvin Robertson - 1987
Michael Jordan - 1993
Gary Payton - 1997 and 1998
All Guards who were 3rd place in DPOY
Maurice Cheeks - 1983
Michael Cooper - 1983
Dennis Johnson - 1984
Sidney Moncrief - 1986
Joe Dumars - 1990
Derek Harper - 1990
Alvin Robertson - 1991
Michael Jordan - 1992
Mookie Blaylock - 1997
Eddie Jones - 2000
Kobe Bryant - 2002
Dwyane Wade - 2009
Paul Pressey and Shane Battier were 3rd place in 1985 and 2008 DPOY voting, respectively. According to Basketball-Reference, however, these players were listed as SFs for those respective seasons and not as SGs.
Including Jordan himself, all 5 guards that have won DPOY and/or came 2nd place in DPOY competed in Jordan's era (1984/85 - 1997/98).
- 13 Guards in NBA history have come at least top 3 in DPOY voting
- 11 of 13 (85%) played multiple seasons in Jordan's era (1984/85 - 1997/98) as full-time starters.
- This excludes Kobe and Wade and includes Jordan himself.
SECTION 18 - Michael Jordan's Wizards Years
SECTION 19 - The Case for Jordan as the Best Perimeter Defender of All-Time
A common statistic brought against Jordan is the 1994 Bulls winning 55 games without Jordan and reaching Game 7 of the ECSF. However, there are plenty of facts left out. The 1994 Bulls kept Scottie, Grant, Cartwright, and Armstrong, and also added two key shooters in Kukoc and Kerr to improve the supporting cast after Jordan left. Jordan never played with all of the aforementioned players all at the exact same time.
Jordan played in the most stacked era at the guard position defensively.
All Guards who won DPOY
Sidney Moncrief - 1983 and 1984
Alvin Robertson - 1986
Michael Cooper - 1987
Michael Jordan - 1988
Gary Payton - 1996
All Guards who were 2nd place in DPOY
Sidney Moncrief - 1985
Alvin Robertson - 1987
Michael Jordan - 1993
Gary Payton - 1997 and 1998
All Guards who were 3rd place in DPOY
Maurice Cheeks - 1983
Michael Cooper - 1983
Dennis Johnson - 1984
Sidney Moncrief - 1986
Joe Dumars - 1990
Derek Harper - 1990
Alvin Robertson - 1991
Michael Jordan - 1992
Mookie Blaylock - 1997
Eddie Jones - 2000
Kobe Bryant - 2002
Dwyane Wade - 2009
Paul Pressey and Shane Battier were 3rd place in 1985 and 2008 DPOY voting, respectively. According to Basketball-Reference, however, these players were listed as SFs for those respective seasons and not as SGs.
Including Jordan himself, all 5 guards that have won DPOY and/or came 2nd place in DPOY competed in Jordan's era (1984/85 - 1997/98).
- 13 Guards in NBA history have come at least top 3 in DPOY voting
- 11 of 13 (85%) played multiple seasons in Jordan's era (1984/85 - 1997/98) as full-time starters.
- This excludes Kobe and Wade and includes Jordan himself.
Myth #5 - Jordan was not as valuable to his team
Main articles
SECTION 8 - The Myth that Jordan Was Not As Valuable to His Teams' SuccessSECTION 18 - Michael Jordan's Wizards Years
SECTION 19 - The Case for Jordan as the Best Perimeter Defender of All-Time
When the 2013 Heat added one shooter in Ray Allen off the bench, James Wade and Bosh averaged their career high FG% and won a franchise best 66 games. Adding two shooters like Kukoc and Kerr definitely had a big impact in making up for Jordan's absence, and explains why Pippen and Grant's FG% rose from 1992/93 to 1993/94.
On top of that, both of the Bulls' 1994 playoff opponents were handicapped. The 1994 Cavs had no Larry Nance or Brad Daugherty due to season ending injuries. In the 1994 ECSF, the Knicks' starting guard Derek Harper was ejected in Game 3 and suspended for Game 4 and 5 in the 1994 ECSF. The Knicks were 3-1 vs the Bulls in the 4 full games Harper played, and 1-2 in the 3 games Harper was ejected/suspended. Thanks to Harper's ejection and the new addition of Kukoc saving the Bulls from going down 0-3, the Bulls were let back in the series.
On top of that, both of the Bulls' 1994 playoff opponents were handicapped. The 1994 Cavs had no Larry Nance or Brad Daugherty due to season ending injuries. In the 1994 ECSF, the Knicks' starting guard Derek Harper was ejected in Game 3 and suspended for Game 4 and 5 in the 1994 ECSF. The Knicks were 3-1 vs the Bulls in the 4 full games Harper played, and 1-2 in the 3 games Harper was ejected/suspended. Thanks to Harper's ejection and the new addition of Kukoc saving the Bulls from going down 0-3, the Bulls were let back in the series.
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| Jordan never played with all notable members of the 1994 team at the exact same time. Even with an improved supporting cast and multiple external factors in their favor, the Bulls fell from a 3peat team to a second-round exit |
The 1994 Bulls had every advantage, handicapped playoff opponents in both rounds, an improved supporting cast outside of Jordan, and even with these factors in their favor, they still failed to get past the 2nd round with an improved supporting cast, after winning 3 straight titles, a very big difference especially after considering all factors in context. 1994 was an extreme anomaly with every factor in favor of the Bulls, yet they still had a notable drop-off between 3 championships and a second round exit.
When such confounding variables are not present, we can see Jordan's value on a team like the Wizards before his knee injury.
The 2001 Wizards were 19-63 prior to the arrival of Jordan. Only two sub-20 teams have gotten a winning record within one year.
2004 Nuggets
- who drafted Carmelo
-and added Andre Miller
2009 Heat
- with Wade coming back from injury
- along with adding Jermaine O'Neal
Outside of Jordan, the 2002 Wizards' only new additions were 5 bench players, 4 of whom where rookies that played very little minutes
Tyronn Lue (20 mpg)
Rookie Kwame Brown (14 mpg)
Rookie Brendan Haywood (14 mpg)
Rookie Etan Thomas (13 mpg)
Rookie Bobby Simmons (11 mpg)
2004 Nuggets
- who drafted Carmelo
-and added Andre Miller
2009 Heat
- with Wade coming back from injury
- along with adding Jermaine O'Neal
Outside of Jordan, the 2002 Wizards' only new additions were 5 bench players, 4 of whom where rookies that played very little minutes
Tyronn Lue (20 mpg)
Rookie Kwame Brown (14 mpg)
Rookie Brendan Haywood (14 mpg)
Rookie Etan Thomas (13 mpg)
Rookie Bobby Simmons (11 mpg)
A summary of the 2002 Wizards pre and post-Jordan knee injury
- 26-21 up to the game Jordan had his knee injury against the Kings
- They were 26-20 when Jordan played, he missed 1 game vs. the Spurs before the injury
- Post-knee injury, the Wizards lost 9 of their next 10 games right after the injury
- This record is even with Rip Hamilton missing 5 weeks from groin injury in the first half of the season
- The Wizards were 15-1 in the last 16 games that Jordan and Rip played together before the injury
Only because of his knee injury, Jordan was prevented from turning a sub-20 win team into a playoff team at 38 years old and well past his prime.
Myth #6 - Jordan would not play well in the modern era or against zones
Main articles
This myth is refuted because Jordan did actually play well in the modern era and when zone was introduced as an officially written rule in the 2001/02 season.
Before the 2001/02 season started, Jordan was already dealing with
- having to skip 3 days of practice before the season opener in MSG because of fluid buildup in his knee- recovering from 2 broken ribs (against Artest) and back spasms
- tendinitis in his knee and wrist
- and during the season Jordan had fluid drained from his knee multiple times
In the 46 games that Jordan played in 01/02 before the injury, he averaged
25.1 - 6.2 - 5.3 - 1.5 - 0.5 on 42%
points - rebounds - assists - steals - blocks
25.1 - 6.2 - 5.3 - 1.5 - 0.5 on 42%
points - rebounds - assists - steals - blocks
Jordan's numbers were also improving as the season went on.
In his last 20 games up to the injury he averaged
27.5 - 6.4 - 5.2 - 1.3 - 0.5 on 44%
In his last 10 games up to the injury he averaged
29.7 - 6.6 - 6.1 - 1.2 - 0.3 on 47%
Further proving that it was recovery from injuries at his old age, not opposing defenses, that mainly hindered Jordan. As shown in the refutation of Myth #5, Jordan also greatly improved the team prior to his knee injury, and it was only after the injury that the team fell out the playoff picture. Jordan would also set a record in 2002/03 by becoming the oldest person to average 20 ppg in a season at ages 39/40, further destroying this myth.
It's also worth nothing that the greatest defense of all-time, the 2004 Pistons, were adamant about avoiding using zones at all costs, employing an exclusive man to man scheme under Larry Brown.
- Chauncey Billups, 2005
It was, in fact, the implementation of zone defenses under Flip Saunders that led to the collapse of the Pistons and heavily contributed to the departure of 4x DPOY Ben Wallace due to his disagreement with Flip Saunders.
 |
| It was, in fact, man to man defense that produced the greatest defensive team of all-time. Larry Brown was adamant about avoiding zone defense at all costs. The subsequent decline of the Pistons' following the introduction of Saunders' zone schemes explained why. |
"I think we look for our offense more than our defense now," Ben Wallace said. "We spend the majority of our time working on our offense, and it definitely shows up."
...Ben Wallace did not think of retribution when he criticized Saunders for not emphasizing defense enough in practice and for how it showed in the team's field-goal percentages. Saunders told Wallace to be accountable
To read more on the 2004 and 2005 Pistons' defensive philosophy, and their collapse in 2006 under Flip Saunders' zone scheme, click here. This link includes sources for all quotes.
2001 Wizards = 2nd worst in ppg allowed the year before.
Up to the injury game
2002 Wizards = allowed 92.2 ppg through 47 games (Jordan missed 1 game)
- would be tied for 6th-best in the league with the Pistons.
2002 Wizards = allowed 92.0 ppg in the 46 games Jordan played
- would be tied for 5th best in the league with the Nets
After Jordan's injury
2002 Wizards = allowed 96.8 ppg in the remaining 35 games
- would be ranked 19th in the league
- and fell to 11th in ppg allowed for the overall season.
And there are several examples of Jordan's great 1 on 1 defense prior to his injury
Paul Pierce - top 3 in PPG
Vince Carter - top 7 in PPG
Peja Stojakovic - top 16 in PPG
Shawn Marion - 19 ppg on 47% in 2001/02 season
Like Jordan's individual numbers, his defensive impact also improved as the season went on prior to his injury
The Wizards started the season off slow with a 2-9 start
- and allowed 98.4 ppg during the 2-9 start
- on pace for 5th worst in the league
In Jordan's last 35 games pre-injury after the 2-9 start
- the Wizards allowed 90.0 ppg
- on pace for 3rd best in the league
When Jordan and Rip Hamilton played together, they were 15-1 in their last 16 games together up to the injury
- The Wizards allowed 86.3 ppg in that 15-1 stretch
- Easily on pace for the best in the league
- The 2002 Heat were number 1 at 88.7 ppg allowed
Rip played 78 games the previous year and the Wizards were still 2nd worst in ppg allowed. The Wizards were by far the best defense in the league when MJ and Rip played together pre-injury.
Under Jordan's defensive leadership, the 2002 Wizards were also great at holding opponent's to low FG%
The 2001 Wizards' opponents shot 47.0%, 3rd worst in the league
Through their first 47 games pre-Jordan's injury (Jordan missed 1 game)
- The 2002 Wizards' opponents shot 44.3%
- on pace for 11th best in the league
In the 35 games post-Jordan's injury
- The 2002 Wizards' opponents shot 46.4%
- on pace for 2nd worst in the league (0.0001% worse than the Suns)
And under Jordan, the Wizards improved on holding opponents to low FG% as the season went on
Wizards got off to a slow 2-9 start to begin the season
- The Wizards' opponents shot 46.8%
- on pace for worst in the league
In the Wizards last 36 games pre-Jordan injury (Jordan missed 1 game)
- The Wizards' opponents shot 43.6%
- on pace for 8th best in the league
The Wizards were 15-1 in the last 16 games that Jordan and Rip Hamilton played together prior to Jordan's knee injury
- The Wizards' opponents shot 41.7% in that 15-1 stretch
- Easily on pace for best in the league
- The 2002 Lakers held opponents to a league best 42.4%
Remember, Rip played 78 games the previous year and the Wizards were still 3rd worst in the league in opponent FG%. When Jordan and Rip played together, they were easily the best, and Jordan was the only major addition to the roster.
Even at 38 years old and with pre-existing injuries, Jordan was very successful on the offensive and defensive side of the ball, on both the team and individual levels prior to his knee injury in the 2001/02 season. There is no rational argument that Jordan would not be even more dominant in his prime in today's game. You can look at the example of Russell Westbrook - a lesser physical talent than Jordan, with a lesser IQ, and without Jordan's fundamentals or shooting touch. He's still averaging a 30-10-10 triple double.
it is also worth noting that the 1997 Bulls are one of a handful of teams to face two sub-90 ppg defenses in one playoff run. These are all the shot-clock era teams to face multiple sub-90 PPG defenses in one playoff run.
- 1997 Bulls (2)
- 1998 Pacers (3)
- 1999 Hawks (2)
- 1999 Pacers (2)
- 1999 Blazers (2)
- 1999 Spurs (2)
- 1999 Knicks (3)
- 2004 Pistons (2)
- 2004 Pacers (2)
- 2004 Lakers (4)
- 2012 Sixers (2)
While being on one of the few teams to face such difficult defensive circumstances, Jordan
- still averaged 31-8-5 on 46% FG - 83% FT for the 1997 Playoffs at age 34
- led the team in 5/5 categories for the last 3 rounds collectively (tied Rodman in rebounds for Rounds 2-4)
Giving little reason to believe he would find trouble in playoff runs where he would not have to face multiple sub-90 PPG defenses such as in the case of post-2004 Playoff teams.
The only post-2004 Playoff team (after the 2004/05 rule changes loosened up defenses) to face two sub-90 defenses in one playoff run are the 2012 Sixers, and this comes with multiple asterisks
- The Sixers faced two injured teams in the 2012 Playoffs
- Bulls with Rose missing all but 1 game and Noah missing 3 of 6 games in the 1st Round
- Celtics with Bradley missing 3 of 7 games in the ECSF, after starting every playoff game
The 2012 Bulls and 2012 Celtics also had much worse defensive numbers against the Western Conference, so their defensive numbers were heavily protected by playing against Eastern Conference teams
- 2012 Bulls = 94.1 PPG allowed vs West teams
- 2012 Celtics = 92.7 PPG allowed vs West teams (a losing 7-11 record vs West teams as well)
Whereas the 1997 Hawks and 1997 Heat both allowed under 90 PPG against both the Eastern and Western Conferences. Both the Hawks and Heat also held West teams to a lower scoring average than they did to East teams.
The 1997 Bulls, 1999 Spurs, and 2004 Pistons are the only championship teams to beat two sub-90 PPG defenses. No team has won the championship while facing more than two sub-90 PPG defenses.
So, regardless of the written introduction of zone defenses, only one team has faced tougher defensive circumstances than Jordan's Bulls did in 1997. How did Jordan respond when going against such difficult defensive circumstances, at age 34 no less? He led the Bulls in 5/5 categories for the last 3 rounds and became the only person to lead a championship team with just one other double-digit scorer.
Jordan's stats are actaully deflated compared to other stars, because he played with the fewest possessions possible during his 6 championships.
Championship Teams with a Sub-90 Pace in the Playoffs
17. 1994 Rockets - 89.9
16. 2010 Lakers - 89.6
15. 1992 Bulls - 89.0
T-13. 1989 Pistons - 88.9
T-13. 2007 Spurs - 88.9
12. 1993 Bulls - 88.5
11. 1991 Bulls - 88.1
10. 2012 Heat - 88.0
T-8. 2013 Heat - 87.3
T-8. 2005 Spurs - 87.3
7. 1996 Bulls - 86.8
6. 2011 Mavericks - 86.6
5. 2004 Pistons - 86.1
4. 2008 Celtics - 85.9
3. 1997 Bulls - 85.5
2. 1999 Spurs - 85.4
1. 1998 Bulls - 84.1
Amongst championship teams
Bulls have
- 6 of the top 15 slowest playoff paces
- 3 of the top 7 slowest playoff paces
- 2 of the top 3 slowest playoff paces
- the slowest playoff pace
Spurs have
- 2 of the top 8 slowest playoff paces
- the 2nd-slowest playoff pace
Bulls (6 times), Spurs (3 times), Heat (2 times), and Pistons (2 times) are the only championship teams with multiple sub-90 playoff paces. Though the Pistons were 15 years apart. No Title teams with a sub-90 Playoff Pace prior to 1989.
The fact that Jordan put up his amazing stats during his championship runs with the fewest possessions possible clearly shows how much more dominant he would be in any other era.
17. 1994 Rockets - 89.9
16. 2010 Lakers - 89.6
15. 1992 Bulls - 89.0
T-13. 1989 Pistons - 88.9
T-13. 2007 Spurs - 88.9
12. 1993 Bulls - 88.5
11. 1991 Bulls - 88.1
10. 2012 Heat - 88.0
T-8. 2013 Heat - 87.3
T-8. 2005 Spurs - 87.3
7. 1996 Bulls - 86.8
6. 2011 Mavericks - 86.6
5. 2004 Pistons - 86.1
4. 2008 Celtics - 85.9
3. 1997 Bulls - 85.5
2. 1999 Spurs - 85.4
1. 1998 Bulls - 84.1
Amongst championship teams
Bulls have
- 6 of the top 15 slowest playoff paces
- 3 of the top 7 slowest playoff paces
- 2 of the top 3 slowest playoff paces
- the slowest playoff pace
Spurs have
- 2 of the top 8 slowest playoff paces
- the 2nd-slowest playoff pace
Bulls (6 times), Spurs (3 times), Heat (2 times), and Pistons (2 times) are the only championship teams with multiple sub-90 playoff paces. Though the Pistons were 15 years apart. No Title teams with a sub-90 Playoff Pace prior to 1989.
The fact that Jordan put up his amazing stats during his championship runs with the fewest possessions possible clearly shows how much more dominant he would be in any other era.
Myth #7 - Jordan was a poor 3-point shooter
Jordan had early years and past prime years where he struggled shooting threes, but he was very good from the non-shortened three-point line in his prime during the playoffs. Even in the one area that is supposed to be his weakness, Jordan still set a playoff record.
Jordan did this in the Bulls' 1991, 1992, and 1993 championship runs under the original 3-point line. He also did it in the 1996 championship run, but with a shorter 3-point line
Four other players meet this criteria in multiple NBA Finals runs
- Terry Porter (1990 and 1992)
- Manu Ginobili (2005 and 2007)
- Ray Allen (2008 and 2010)
- Stephen Curry (2015, 2016, 2017)
Jordan shot 55/142 (38.7%) 3PT from three in the 91-92-93 Playoffs in his prime.
- Terry Porter (1990 and 1992)
- Manu Ginobili (2005 and 2007)
- Ray Allen (2008 and 2010)
- Stephen Curry (2015, 2016, 2017)
All of the aforementioned players did this while scoring at a lower volume. Jordan is the only one to do it with 30+ ppg, all 3 times from 91-92-93. It would be 4 times if you included the shorter 96 line, but of course you shouldn't.
Jordan shot 28/70 (40%) from the non-shortened 3-point line in his Finals career (1991, 1992, 1993, 1998). The shorter lines in 1996 and 1997 actually lowered his NBA Finals 3-point averages, probably due to passing his prime and less spacing afforded from shorter lines.
40% Non-Shortened Line 3PT Shooters for a Finals career (min. 15 PPG)
- 46.15% - Isiah Thomas (22.6 PPG) - 1988-1989-1990 Finals
- 45.24% - Kawhi Leonard (15.9 PPG) - 2013-2014 Finals
- 43.66% - Kevin Durant - (32.9 PPG) - 2012-2017 Finals
- 43.59% - Dan Majerle (17.2 PPG) - 1993 Finals
- 43.59% - Derek Harper (16.4 PPG) - 1994 Finals
- 41.30% - Larry Bird (23.1 PPG) - 1981-1984-1985-1986-1987 Finals
- 40.00% - Michael Jordan* (35.6 PPG) - 1991-1992-1993-1998 Finals
Jordan was also 1 missed FT short of shooting 53/43/91 in the 1992 Finals. He shot 41/46 FT or 89% FT to barely miss it. The only player who has shot 50/40/90 in NBA Finals history under the original 3-point line and with enough 3PT/FT attempts (at least 1.5 3PA and 3 FTA/game) was Chauncey Billups in 2004, and while scoring at much lower volume of 21 ppg.
Myth #8 - Jordan was a ball-hog / not a good passer
Jordan was actually one of the best passers of all-time for a non-point guard. Jordan's assist averages were lowered for multiple reasons.
1. The triangle offense
The triangle promotes shared playmaking amongst the team, unlike pick and roll offenses where one person controls all the playmaking. In the triangle, bigs average more assists and perimeter players average less assists. Shaq had his 2 best assist seasons under the triangle, and 4 of his 5 best assist seasons under the triangle. Rodman had his 3 best assist seasons under the triangle from 1996-1998. Scottie Pippen has just one career playoff run of 6+ apg, at 6.7 apg in 1992.
On the other hand, Kobe had his 2 best assist seasons outside the triangle in 2005 and 2013, and Jordan averaged more assists in 2001/02 at age 38 with the Wizards, even with his knee injury, compared to any of his last 3 seasons under the triangle from 1996 to 1998.
2. Poor offensive help in the last 3peat
With Jordan's teammates struggling offensively, it obviously made it harder to get assists. In the 1996 title run, the Bulls became the only championship team since the 1964 Celtics where the 2nd and 3rd scorers both shot under 40% for the playoffs.
In the 1997 title run, Jordan became the only player to ever lead a championship team to the title with only one double digit scorer for the playoffs. Pippen had 19 ppg on a sub-par 42%, and all other Bulls failed to reach 8 ppg. The 1997 and 1998 Bulls have the two lowest scoring supporting casts by a title team in the NBA Finals and NBA Playoffs since 1954, as seen in the refutation of Myth #1.
With Jordan's teammates struggling offensively, it obviously made it harder to get assists. In the 1996 title run, the Bulls became the only championship team since the 1964 Celtics where the 2nd and 3rd scorers both shot under 40% for the playoffs.
In the 1997 title run, Jordan became the only player to ever lead a championship team to the title with only one double digit scorer for the playoffs. Pippen had 19 ppg on a sub-par 42%, and all other Bulls failed to reach 8 ppg. The 1997 and 1998 Bulls have the two lowest scoring supporting casts by a title team in the NBA Finals and NBA Playoffs since 1954, as seen in the refutation of Myth #1.
3. Jordan's age
Jordan played about 1/3 of his playoff games from age 33 to 35 (1996 - 1998) when he was clearly past his prime. This heavily deflated his career playoff stats, especially when compounded with the lack of offensive help in that same period and the triangle offense's limitation on perimeter players' assists.
In spite of the triangle's limitations on individual assists, the lack of offensive help for a large chunk of his playoff career, and playing 1/3 of his playoff career from age 33 to 35, Jordan and LeBron are the only non-point guards with 6+ apg in 4 different Finals (LeBron did it 6 times). Jordan also averaged a good 5.7 apg for his playoff career, despite playing 1/3 of his playoff games from age 33 to 35.
When Jordan had more control of the playmaking, he averaged 11.4 apg in the 1991 Finals, the highest by anyone in the Finals not named Magic Johnson.
Take a look at Jordan's playoff assist averages up to age 32 with LeBron's at age 31, and Jordan's compare very favorably even with the presence of the triangle offense for most of those playoff games.
Up to the 2019 Playoffs, Jordan's AST:TO ratio (1.87) is not far behind LeBron's (1.95)
Myth #9 - Jordan benefited from calls much moreso than other stars
 |
| Broderick Turner - The Press-Enterprise, 2008 |
Main article
When unable to find valid criticisms of his individual play, Jordan critics often fall back on the weak cop-out that the league supposedly rigged all of his championships in order to market him. This "argument" is based on demagoguery and not actual facts. There are two angles that are used to promote this kind of rhetoric.
1. Isolating clips of calls in favor of the Bulls
2. Citing quotes from players, coaches, etc. that complain about officiating.
Regarding the first point, one can just easily show critical instances where the officiating was in favor of the opposition. A perfect example is the 4th quarter of Game 7 of the 1998 ECF. Pretty much every questionable call down the stretch of a must-win Game 7 was given to the Pacers. If the league was legitimately rigged in favor of Jordan, this would have never happened in a must-win Game 7 situation.
Another example is Rodman's extreme foul trouble during the 1996/97 season and 1997 Playoffs. Rodman had set a then-record 17 technical fouls in the season and was fouled out or ejected in 3 of 5 games during the series against the Hawks. He also led all players in the 1997 Finals in fouls despite playing only 27 minutes per game. Jordan himself also had at least two technicals during the 1997 Playoffs.
If you take the time to look at both sides, it's clear the Bulls were nowhere near exempt from unfair officiating.
As for the second point, it's clear that such statements are influenced by personal, emotional, and recall bias. If your team is always losing against the Bulls, or any other champion such as the Lakers or Spurs, you are going to selectively remember the calls that went against you. Only because of the fact that the Bulls won so often, a large number of people will tend to recall the officiating that was in their favor more often.
Some Jordan critics also like to quote Tim Donaghy on this subject, as if a convicted criminal is a credible source.
Donaghy claims that as a young referee he called a travel on Michael Jordan. In the ensuing conversation, Donaghy writes, then-Bulls coach Phil Jackson pointed at Jordan and said "they don't want that called on him."
However, plenty of Donaghy's claims regarding the NBA's methods of alleged match-fixing were debunked in a 2009 ESPN article, with Phil Jackson also denying the authenticity of Donaghy's remark, lending little credibility to his statements.
The documented, historical, and statistical facts (not opinions or subjective quotes) easily destroy this myth.
2. In the playoffs, Jordan only led the league in total FTAs twice in their 6 title seasons (1996 + 1998), despite the fact that the Bulls played more rounds than all but one other team (their Finals opponents) in the league those years.
3. The Bulls were ranked at the bottom 8 of the league in free throw attempts in 5 out of their 6 title seasons. In 1992 they were ranked 16th out of 27 in free throw attempts, so they were still a below average team in terms of drawing fouls in the lone season that was an exception.
3. The Bulls were ranked at the bottom 8 of the league in free throw attempts in 5 out of their 6 title seasons. In 1992 they were ranked 16th out of 27 in free throw attempts, so they were still a below average team in terms of drawing fouls in the lone season that was an exception.
4. The Bulls had less free throws than their opponents did, collectively, in 4 out of their 6 title seasons during the playoffs, and 4 out of 6 NBA Finals. The 2 exceptions were 1996 and 1998.
5. After Jordan's retirement in 1998, there has been a very strong correlation between a team's free throw advantage and winning an NBA Finals. Since Jordan's last NBA Finals in 1998, only 4 of the 18 NBA Finals winners from 1999 to 2016 attempted less free throws than the losing team.
- 2000 Lakers
- 2009 Lakers
- 2013 Heat
- 2015 Warriors
The Bulls had to overcome that obstacle 4 times in only 6 title seasons alone, both for the Finals and against their playoff opponents collectively. Further proving that if anything, the odds were actually against the 90s Bulls in terms of officiating or free throws.
6. Jordan shot less free throws than the opposing team's top FT shooter in 4 out of 6 NBA Finals, despite having more FG attempts. Once again, the exceptions were 1996 and 1998.
1991 Finals - Jordan took 55 more FGAs than Magic
- Jordan 33 FTAs
- Magic 41 FTAs
1992 Finals - Jordan took 36 more FGAs than Drexler
- Jordan 46 FTAs
- Drexler 56 FTAs
1993 Finals - Jordan took 73 more FGAs than Barkley
- Jordan 49 FTAs
- Barkley 56 FTAs
1996 - Jordan took 33 and 34 more FGAs than Payton and Kemp, respectively
- Jordan 67 FTAs
- Kemp 49 FTAs
1997 - Jordan took 36 more FGAs than Malone
- Jordan 55 FTAs
- Malone 57 FTAs
1998 - Jordan took 45 more FGAs than Malone
- Jordan 70 FTAs
- Malone 38 FTAs
1991 Finals - Jordan took 55 more FGAs than Magic
- Jordan 33 FTAs
- Magic 41 FTAs
1992 Finals - Jordan took 36 more FGAs than Drexler
- Jordan 46 FTAs
- Drexler 56 FTAs
1993 Finals - Jordan took 73 more FGAs than Barkley
- Jordan 49 FTAs
- Barkley 56 FTAs
1996 - Jordan took 33 and 34 more FGAs than Payton and Kemp, respectively
- Jordan 67 FTAs
- Kemp 49 FTAs
1997 - Jordan took 36 more FGAs than Malone
- Jordan 55 FTAs
- Malone 57 FTAs
1998 - Jordan took 45 more FGAs than Malone
- Jordan 70 FTAs
- Malone 38 FTAs
And in the 1996 and 1998 Finals when Jordan took more FTs than Payton, Kemp and Malone, he also took much more FGA than all of them, so it makes sense that he had more FTAs along with taking more FGAs. Clearly there is no evidence of favorable treatment when we look at the objective facts instead of isolated and biased footage and quotes.
Both as a team and with regards to Jordan individually, the documented, historical, and statistical facts (not opinions or subjective quotes) are actually strongly against the notion that the league was rigged in favor of Jordan's Bulls.
Some may come up with the excuse that non-shooting fouls are not taken into account when looking at free throw attempts, but that point is moot since the majority of fouls are, in fact, shooting fouls - which include all the negative effects of a non-shooting foul on top of the added penalty of free throws.
This site includes data on shooting and non-shooting fouls back to the 1996/97 season and 1997 Playoffs. The league averages for shooting fouls and all personal fouls are included at the bottom of the table on the site. The percentages are calculated by dividing the total number of personal fouls from the number of shooting fouls
Here is the available data for Jordan's last 2 title seasons.
Unfortunately, data from earlier seasons is not available.
Unfortunately, data from earlier seasons is not available.
1996/97 Season - 60.2% of personal fouls are shooting fouls
1997 Playoffs - 60.3% of personal fouls are shooting fouls
1997/98 Season - 61.6% of personal fouls are shooting fouls
1998 Playoffs - 59.4% of personal fouls are shooting fouls
This proportion decreased a little bit up to the 2015/16 season, perhaps the explosion of the three-pointer has something to do with it, as teams are less likely to commit fouls on jumpshooters than players who operate in the post or attack the rim.
2015/16 Season - 59.1% of personal fouls are shooting fouls
2016 Playoffs - 56.3% of personal fouls are shooting fouls
With the proportion of shooting fouls only decreasing by 3-4% from the 1996 and 1997 Playoffs up to the 2016 Playoffs, it's unlikely that we are going to see a notable difference in the proportion of shooting fouls in other seasons and playoffs of Jordan's career compared to 1997 and 1998.
Non-shooting fouls can be further disregarded in this argument when you consider that the most controversially officiated games and series of the 2000s/2010s have, in fact, been those series with the biggest disparity in free throws attempted.
Note that I am not suggesting these games or series were actually rigged. I am simply stating that the games and series which are most often cited as examples of rigging in the 2000s/2010s are, in fact, those with the biggest free throw disparities.
2000 WCF, Game 7
Lakers - 37 FTA
Blazers - 16 FTA
2002 WCF, Game 6
Lakers - 40 FTA
Kings - 25 FTA
Note: Game 6 alone is the main cause of controversy in the 2002 WCF, so citing the Kings +19 FT advantage for the series as a whole is irrelevant.
2006 Finals
Heat - 207 FTA
Mavs - 155 FTA
2010 Finals
Lakers - 200 FTA
Celtics - 149 FTA
All forms of documented, historical, and statistical facts (not opinions or subjective quotes) emphatically refute the fabrication that the league rigged Jordan's championships and success for him. There is no way to circumvent these documented, historical, and statistical facts without shifting goalposts or self-contradiction.
UPDATE: It appears the nbaminer website has been shut down, but one can still obtain a rough estimate of the number of shooting fouls as a percentage of total personal fouls using data on the NBA League Averages page and the following methodology;
Divide the number of average FTA by 2 (2 free throws per shooting foul), and then calculate this result as a percentage of the total PFs called.
This does not account for shooting fouls that result in 1 or 3 FTAs due to And-1s and 3-point fouls, respectively, nor as a result of technical fouls. However, it is still roughly accurate enough to clearly see that shooting fouls far outnumber non-shooting fouls, as the nbaminer website also corroborated before it was taken down.
For brevity’s sake, I will only tabulate 1984/85 to 1997/98 to encompass Jordan’s career as a Bull. Feel free to run your own calculations on prior or subsequent seasons.
The evidence is clear and undisputed. Shooting fouls have always outnumbered non-shooting fouls by a significant margin and occur roughly 1.5 times as frequently. Therefore, the Bulls were consistently called for more shooting, non-shooting, and total personal fouls, in addition to Rodman setting then-records for technical fouls.
Myth #10 - Jordan had the league change rules for him
This is an extended fabrication of the notion that the league rigged games in favor of Jordan and the Bulls. Jordan's complaints regarding the Pistons' physical play, and the subsequent introduction of the flagrant foul rule, are seen by his critics as an example of the league changing their rules specifically to cater to Jordan.
Video evidence refutes this myth here. Other people who spoke out against the Pistons' style of play were Charles Barkley and Larry Bird. The criticism of the Pistons style of play was also shared by the media, for example in these articles by the New York Times and LA Times during the 1991 ECF. Anyone who thinks the rule change was due to the complaints of Jordan alone and for his sole benefit is delusional.
The introduction of the flagrant foul rule was not in any way made specifically for or solely because of Jordan. It was a response due to league-wide complaints about the Pistons' play, and Jordan happened to be one of the many people that spoke out against it. The rule also had no effect on the Pistons' anyway, as they still ended up with the number 1 defense
in points allowed during the 1991 season and made their 5th straight ECF.
If you want a real example of an individual directly influencing the league to change the rules, unlike this myth with regards to Jordan, take a look at Mark Cuban after the 2004 Finals.
After the Finals, I sat down with the league and discussed with them the difference between player and team advantage. The discussion lead to changing the rules so that perimeter contact was called far more often."
- Mark Cuban
This is not even close to what happened with Jordan and his mere complaints, which were shared by many others, regarding the Bad Boy Pistons' physical play.
SECTION 3 - Jordan's "Weak" Defensive Competition Compared to Lebron/Kobe's "Advanced" Competition
- Proving the vast superiority of individual defenders of Jordan's era compared to the 2000s
SECTION 21 - Hakeem Olajuwon: The Greatest Center of All-Time
- Hakeem Olajuwon is the best center of all-time, and there is strong evidence to prove it
SECTION 29 - Refuting 10 Myths About Michael Jordan
- Refuting certain myths about Jordan, as well as abridging of some of the main points in earlier sections for easier reference.
SECTION 30 - The 20 Greatest Conference Finals Runs of All-Time
- Ranking the 20 greatest playoff runs in which a player played 3 rounds before losing prior to the NBA Finals
SECTION 31 - The 1970s: The Weakest Decade of the NBA's Post-Infancy
- Why the 1970s was the weakest decade of any era from 1960-present
SECTION 32 - The 10 Worst Supporting Casts on NBA Finals Teams (1960-Present)
- Examining the worst supporting casts on teams that reached the NBA Finals
SECTION 33 - The 10 Greatest Rookie Playoff Runs of All-Time
- The most impressive playoff runs in which rookies led their team to at least one series win
in points allowed during the 1991 season and made their 5th straight ECF.
If you want a real example of an individual directly influencing the league to change the rules, unlike this myth with regards to Jordan, take a look at Mark Cuban after the 2004 Finals.
After the Finals, I sat down with the league and discussed with them the difference between player and team advantage. The discussion lead to changing the rules so that perimeter contact was called far more often."
- Mark Cuban
This is not even close to what happened with Jordan and his mere complaints, which were shared by many others, regarding the Bad Boy Pistons' physical play.
- Looking at how the Jordan Era players had an easier time in the modern era
- Looking at how a 38-40 year old Jordan himself schooled the 2000s defenders
SECTION 3 - Jordan's "Weak" Defensive Competition Compared to Lebron/Kobe's "Advanced" Competition
- Proving the vast superiority of individual defenders of Jordan's era compared to the 2000s
- Destroying the myth that Jordan never played zone defense
- Proof that 80s/90s players would still have success guarding 2000s players without the 80s/90s rules
- Looking at how Jordan did against the 80s teams and why expansion did not make it easier to win championships
- Proof that Jordan's Competition was 80s-quality and far better than the 2000s era
- Looking at the truth of how the Bulls did without Jordan, and how other great teams did without their stars.
- Did Jordan really get any more special treatment than other superstars? Nope.
- Exposing the myths behind the great, but misunderstood, Wilt Chamberlain
- Looking at how Lebron got locked down by defenders of the 2000s era and comparing them to the vastly superior 80s/90s
- Destroying one of the media's biggest misconceptions regarding Lebron's solid but vastly overrated defense
- Lebron fans think no player in history could succeed if their teammates don't step up, and that Lebron is the only one who has carried a team on his back. Is that really the case?
- The real Jordan vs Lebron comparison
- The real Jordan vs Kobe comparison
- Kareem is great, but he is not even the greatest center of all-time, let alone the greatest of all-time.
- The full context behind Jordan's struggles without Pippen
- A look at how Jordan turned the Wizards around before his knee injury caught up to him
- Looking at Jordan's defensive impact in detail, both as a team player and 1 on 1 defender
- Looking at the strong evidence supporting that Jordan would have achieved more than what LeBron has in Cleveland and Miami
SECTION 21 - Hakeem Olajuwon: The Greatest Center of All-Time
- Hakeem Olajuwon is the best center of all-time, and there is strong evidence to prove it
- Chris Paul is an extremely overrated playoff performer and defender, and isn't even a top 5 PG of his own era, let alone all-time
- Kevin Johnson is an extremely underrated and under-appreciated point guard, who should have been a first-ballot Hall of Famer and considered a top-10 point guard of all-time
- Analyzing the three greatest individual playoff runs in NBA history
- Analyzing the worst performances in NBA Finals history
- Comparing the two players who won the most championships as the best player on their team
- Taking a look at the greatest coaches in NBA history
- Taking a look at the players who least deserved to win their Finals MVPsSECTION 29 - Refuting 10 Myths About Michael Jordan
- Refuting certain myths about Jordan, as well as abridging of some of the main points in earlier sections for easier reference.
SECTION 30 - The 20 Greatest Conference Finals Runs of All-Time
- Ranking the 20 greatest playoff runs in which a player played 3 rounds before losing prior to the NBA Finals
SECTION 31 - The 1970s: The Weakest Decade of the NBA's Post-Infancy
- Why the 1970s was the weakest decade of any era from 1960-present
SECTION 32 - The 10 Worst Supporting Casts on NBA Finals Teams (1960-Present)
- Examining the worst supporting casts on teams that reached the NBA Finals
SECTION 33 - The 10 Greatest Rookie Playoff Runs of All-Time
- The most impressive playoff runs in which rookies led their team to at least one series win
Hmm..you make an interesting point about all the sub 60 ppg supporting casts that won rings.
ReplyDeleteThe real stats:
1997 bulls supporting cast: 95.1/62.8 ppg (season/playoffs)
1998 bulls supporting cast: 98.3/63.4 ppg
Not sure where you're getting your numbers from.
Sub-60 PPG was referring to the NBA Finals alone, not the entire playoffs. same with 94 Rockets, 99 Spurs, 06 Heat
Deleteyour stats for the playoffs are a little off by a few PPG.
DeleteThis is the formula I used
(Bulls total playoff points) - (Jordan's total playoff points)
And the difference divided by number of playoff games
1997 Bulls = 1758 playoff points
1997 MJ = 590 playoff points
1168 points difference / 19 games = 61.47 ppg supporting cast
1998 Bulls = 1956 playoff points
1998 MJ = 680 playoff points
1276 points difference / 21 games = 60.76 ppg supporting cast
The regular season stats are greatly off, because the Bulls as a team only averaged 103.1 ppg and 96.7 ppg in the 1997 and 1998 seasons respectively. but the supporting cast in your regular season calculation nearly produced those averages by themselves.
I assume you were adding the scoring averages of the teammates individually which is affected by rounding and some teammates playing a different number of games. but either way sub-60 referred to the NBA Finals alone and not the whole playoffs
Also, Kobe has defeated 26 50+ win teams, not 6 when combined with Duncan and LeBron. I know this is outdated, but you're way off so it's probably worth updating.
ReplyDeleteAnd 10 of those were without Shaq on his team.
6 combined refers to 60+ win teams that they beat combined, not 50+
Delete60+ win teams beaten by
Duncan - 2005 Suns, 2007 Suns
Kobe - 2002 Kings (98 Sonics was off the bench)
LeBron - 2011 Bulls, 2015 Hawks, 2017 Warriors
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSecond three peat was much better (especially offensively) than first 3peat Bulls. Harper>Armstrong (don't look at false numbers for that either...Rodmans offensive rebounding commanded double teams from the Sonics in 96 FINALS, Grant never commanded that. Kukoc was capable of going off for 30 pts any given night and won 6th man of yr. Kerr=Paxson. I'd even give Longley slight edge over Cartwright but not really worth looking at.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if you even know how much of a douchebag Jordan is in person to be this big a fan of him
ReplyDeleteTwo things I'm not sure you have covered but here's a couple things that might be worth noting:
ReplyDelete1) People bring up Worthy's injury in 91 but often fail to mention that Jordan also suffered an injury in game 3 when he hit that game-tying shot over Divac. The next game he had to cut open his shoe above toe early on to quell the swelling/bruising. He eventually switched shoes. The fact that he still finished out the series (and overtime of g3) with the numbers that he did after that is impressive.
2) Somewhat related to the idea that defenses now are "more advanced" because zone is allowed and players can overload the strong side by exploiting the defensive 3-second rule (stepping in-and-out every 2 to < 3 seconds):
Setting aside the fact that handchecking is strictly regulated, and that teams still played "zones" often without getting called (esp in late game situations) - couldn't one simply make the argument that these "vastly superior" defensive schemes wouldn't just benefit the Bulls and players like Jordan and Pippen, along with Rodman and maybe Grant to a lesser extent on the defensive end?
Think about it: supposedly it would be easier to hide Kerr and Paxon's weak defense and Kukoc's shoddy interior defense.
Allow Rodman or Grant to hover in the lane every 'almost' 3-seconds. If someone like Noah could do it and win DPOY then Rodman would have no trouble.
Pippen and Jordan would be able to "soft double' according to this logic. They had an insane degree of success with the supposed "hard double limitation" levied against them that it would be ridiculous to think that 2-3 steals per game Jordan and Pippen wouldn't have a field day with no penalties for "soft-doubling", say, Ewing, Kemp, Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Magic, Drexler, Porter, Hakeem, KJ...ect.
I disagree with the "MJ had weaker offensive teammates in second threepeat". If anything having two Point Forwards in Pippen and Kukoc took away his ballhandling opportunities. Also, Defenses were much tougher in second threepeat than the first threepeat.
ReplyDelete