To read even more detail on Kevin Johnson, go here.
The last section dealt with Chris Paul, by far the most overrated point guard of all-time and an extremely overrated defender. It only seems right that we deal with the opposite end of the spectrum and look at the most underrated point guard of all-time, Kevin Johnson. In spite of Kevin Johnson's amazing accomplishments, his media accolades surprisingly don't seem up to par compared with other great PGs. He was only a 3x all-star and only made 4 All-NBA 2nd teams and 1 All-NBA 3rd team. That being said, it is an extreme disappointment that Kevin Johnson was not a first-ballot Hall of Famer, and even moreso given that KJ has still not yet entered the Hall of Fame.
His lack of All-star and All-NBA selections can be attributed to competing in the same conference as prime Magic Johnson, John Stockton, and Gary Payton throughout his entire career as a starter (1989 - 1997), as well as competing in the same era as other great PGs like Isiah Thomas. All 4 of these point guards are pretty much unanimously considered top 10 point guards of all-time (as KJ also should be), so after looking at Kevin Johnson's lack of accolades in context, it's clear that they don't accurately represent how great of a player he was. Very few PGs in history would be able to accumulate many accolades going against that level of competition at the PG position. And KJ's lack of rings can be attributed to facing prime Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, and Hakeem Olajuwon throughout his playoff career (all 3 of whom are the best all-time at their positions) along with great 2nd-tier competition in the form of Stockton/Malone and Drexler.
Later on, we will list the numerous records Kevin Johnson has and shares in both the regular season and playoffs with other great point guards, but first let's take a look at Kevin Johnson's career year-by-year, starting with his first season as a starter (2nd year in the league)
1989
For the 1988/89 regular season, KJ averaged 20.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, and 12.2 apg on 50.5% FG with 1.7 spg. Magic Johnson is the only other player in history to average 20 ppg and 12 apg on 50% in a season (he did it twice), and Isiah Thomas is the only other player with Magic and KJ to average 20 ppg and 12 apg in a season, but he didn't do it on 50% FG.
KJ would elevate his play to an even higher level during the 1989 Playoffs, averaging 23.8 ppg, 4.3 rpg, and 12.3 apg on 49.5% with 1.6 spg, and would take the Suns to the 1989 WCF, where Magic's Lakers would sweep them on the way to the NBA Finals. The only other player to average at least 23 ppg and 12 apg in a playoff run past the first round is Magic Johnson, who had 25-13 in the 1990 Playoffs where he lost in the 1990 WCSF - to Kevin Johnson's Suns. This makes KJ the only player to average 23-12 past the second round of the playoffs.
Now, Tom Chambers and Eddie Johnson did have great averages in the regular season and playoffs, but they were extremely dependent on Kevin Johnson to create their offense for them - we'll see this in the 1990 Playoffs when we get to that part of his career. It's similar to how Steve Nash elevated his teammates to the point that they were putting up insane numbers in the playoffs - like Shawn Marion averaging 26-13 on 50% in the 2006 WCSF, and Boris Diaw having 24-9-3 on 52% in the 2006 WCF. Those guys' great numbers were mostly the product of having their point guards set them up and create offense for them. As another example, Carmelo shot 50% or better in 10 out of 22 playoff games with Chauncey Billups in the 2009 and 2010 Playoffs, but only shot 50% in 5 out of the remaining 44 playoff games in his career as of 2015.
1990
For the 1989/90 season, Kevin Johnson averaged 22.5 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 11.4 apg on 49.9% FG, and he would continue this great play in the playoffs, averaging 21.3 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 10.6 apg on 47.9% FG with 1.6 spg. KJ would lead the Suns past the 1990 Lakers in the WCSF, upsetting MVP Magic Johnson's Lakers with Worthy, Cooper, and coach Pat Riley in 5 games.
However, KJ's playoff performance was even better than the above numbers indicate. His averages were brought down due to the fact that KJ was injured and played limited minutes in his first and last game of the 1990 Playoffs. In Game 1 vs Stockton/Malone's Jazz in the 1990 first round, K.J. had the flu, but started and tried to play. He only played 9 minutes, with 0 points and 5 assists, before head coach Cotton Fitzsimmons sent him back to the hotel.
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| Kevin Johnson's 1990 Playoff run is one of the most underrated playoff runs of all-time, and had it not been for injuries they may have had a shot at facing the Pistons in the 1990 Finals. |
In Game 6 vs Clyde Drexler's Blazers in the 1990 WCF, what ended up being the Suns' final playoff game, K.J. had 16 points and 6 assists in 14 minutes of play. His final field goal, however, came late in the second quarter while KJ slid backwards off Kevin Duckworth's torso, causing K.J.'s left leg to snap up into the air. The result was a pulled hamstring that forced K.J. to leave the game a couple of possessions later, unable to return. Excluding those 2 games with limited minutes, KJ averaged 23.1 ppg and 11.4 apg on 48% in that 1990 playoff run, which should have been the 2nd consecutive year that he averaged at least 23 ppg 11 apg past the first round. Nobody else has done this more than once past the first round.
The Suns were 0-2 in the 2 playoff games that KJ was injured, and as a result Tom Chambers and Eddie Johnson struggled terribly without KJ to create their offense for them. Tom Chambers shot 5/16 (31%) in both of those games that KJ was injured against the Jazz and Blazers, and had 4 and 5 turnovers in those games. Eddie Johnson only had 5 points on 1/4 (25%) FG in the Jazz game that KJ was injured and 11 points on 3/11 (27%) FG in the Blazers game that KJ was injured. The difference in their production with KJ on and off the court was night and day - and a testament to how great KJ was at elevating the teammates around him. Unfortunately, due to KJ's injuries, the Blazers finished off the Suns and went on to the 1990 NBA Finals.
1991
KJ would continue producing great regular season averages, putting up 22.2 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 10.1 apg on 51.6% with 2.1 spg. This made KJ the only player with Magic Johnson to put up at least 20-10 on 50% in 2 different seasons. Nobody including Magic has done this more than twice, but KJ would have done it a record 3rd time had he not shot 49.9% in the 1989/90 season. This also made KJ the only player with Oscar and Isiah to put up 20 ppg 10 apg in 3 consecutive seasons (Magic also averaged 20-10 in 3 seasons, but not consecutively)
In the 1991 Playoffs, however, KJ was totally outplayed by John Stockton, who put up 18-13 on 62% to KJ's 13-10 on 30% as the Jazz sent the Suns home 3-1 in the first round. This is the only time that a healthy KJ had a poor playoff run, and he would bounce back the very next season.
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| The 1991 Playoffs in which John Stockton outplayed Kevin Johnson is the only poor playoff performance of KJ's healthy career |
1992
Kevin Johnson nearly tied Oscar and Isiah for averaging 20-10 for a 4th consecutive season, but fell barely short as he averaged 19.7 ppg with 3.7 rpg and 10.7 apg on 47.9%, along with 1.5 spg. In the playoffs, KJ would once again elevate his play to a whole other level.
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| Kevin Johnson continued putting up historical averages in the 1992 Playoffs, but fell short to Drexler's Blazers again |
For the 1992 Playoffs, KJ put up 23.6 ppg, 4.1 rpg, and 11.6 apg on 48% along with 1.5 spg, but their run would fall short in the WCSF against Drexler's Blazers, who beat the Suns in 5 and went on to lose to Jordan's Bulls in the 1992 Finals. In this playoff run, Kevin Johnson officially became, and still is, the only player to average 23-11 in 2 playoff runs past the first round, the other coming in 1989.
And as we mentioned earlier, KJ was playing at a 23-11 level in the 1990 WCF run outside of his 2 injury games, so in reality KJ should have done it 3 times past the first round, including 2 WCF runs, when nobody else has done it past the first round more than once. Steve Nash is the only other player to average at least 23-11 past the 2nd round when he did it in the 2005 WCF run.
1993
In 1993, Charles Barkley came to the Suns, but unfortunately KJ's injuries would start becoming a big issue. During the warmups of a preseason game, KJ helped lift the overweight Oliver Miller off the ground and this would cause KJ to suffer an undiagnosed hernia. From 1992 - 1997 KJ would miss a lot of regular season games as a result of injuries stemming from not only the the initial undiagnosed hernia, but a second one as well.
Prior to the 1992/93 season, KJ never missed more than 7 games in a season, but would miss at least 12 games in each of the remaining seasons of his career, and also missed as high as 35 games in 1994/95. It wasn't until late 1996, during surgery to repair the second hernia, that doctors discovered the initial hernia that KJ suffered. Complications and injuries from these hernias would ultimately cut KJ's career short, but he still managed to play at an elite level in spite of that.
For the regular season, KJ had a mediocre, for his standards, 16-2-8 on 50%, but the Suns still managed to win 62 games with KJ missing 33 games. However, after the first game of the postseason, it was clear that the Suns were only a good regular season team without KJ, but not in the playoffs. The league-best record Suns lost their first game against the 8-seed Lakers when KJ was not able to play due to injury, and when KJ came back they fell to an 0-2 hole and were put on the brink of elimination. But eventually, they got their rhythm back with KJ in the lineup and won 3 straight, after nearly becoming the first 1-seed to get upset by an 8-seed with KJ missing the first game of the playoffs. Including the 2 games that KJ was injured in the 1990 Playoffs, the 90s Suns were 0-3 in the playoffs when KJ did not play or was injured during his time as a starter - a huge testament to how valuable he was to his team.
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| KJ had his ups and downs in the later rounds of the 1993 Playoffs, but still had a great overall playoff run and proved how valuable he was to the team, when even with Barkley they were nearly upset by the 8-seed Lakers prior to KJ's return |
In the next round against David Robinson's Spurs, KJ put up 21-9 on 53% with 1.5 spg as the Suns beat the Spurs in 6 and went on to face Payton and Kemp's Sonics in the 1993 WCF. Here is where KJ started to struggle, partly due to hamstring stiffness as well as great defense by Gary Payton. KJ had an up and down series of 16-2-7 on 47%, with sub-par performances in Games 2 and 4, an OK performance in Game 5, and great performances in Games 1, 3, 6, and 7. KJ stepped up his game in the last 3 games of the series, averaging 19-2-8 on 46% with 2.0 spg and a key Game 7 performance of 22-9 with 14/16 FTs along with 4 steals and 2 blocks.
Then the Suns played Jordan's Bulls in the 1993 Finals. KJ had a slow start to the series, averaging only 7.5 ppg and 4 apg on 29% in Games 1 and 2. Over the last 4 games, however, KJ stepped it up and had 22-4-8 on 46%, including a great Game 3 performance where he set an NBA Finals record for minutes played with 62 in the 3OT game. KJ was still playing at an elite level in the 1993 Playoffs despite his injuries, and it was only after running into the 2 best defensive guards of all-time (Payton and Jordan) that his numbers went down. Prior to running into those 2, KJ averaged 19.6 ppg 9.4 apg on 53% through 2 rounds, so he was right on par with his usual 20-10 averages.
1994
Kevin Johnson would miss 15 games, but averaged 20 ppg 9.5 apg on 48.7% with 1.9 spg for the 1993/94 season. In the playoffs however, KJ stepped it up to an insane level of play, playing just as well if not better than Barkley. For the 1994 Playoffs, KJ averaged 26.6 - 3.5 - 9.6 on 46% to Barkley's 27.6 - 13.0 - 4.8 on 51%. The Suns would battle it out to 7 games with Hakeem's Rockets, where KJ clearly outplayed Barkley against the eventual champions. It is a little known fact that KJ and Barkley were often the 1A and 1B in Phoenix, and Barkley was not always the best player.
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| Despite KJ's all-time great level of play in the 1994 and 1995 Playoffs, Hakeem was simply too much for the Suns to overcome both times. |
KJ averaged 26.6 - 3.6 - 9.7 on 44% to Barkley's 23.4 - 12.9 - 4.1 on 46%, shooting nearly as efficiently as Barkley despite being a PG, and accounting for much more points than Barkley given the big assist advantage along with the ppg advantage. Unfortunately for KJ and the Suns, Hakeem was playing at a historically great level, leading the Rockets in 5/5 categories for the entire playoffs on the way to the championship, something that has never been done before or since, and Hakeem simply could not be denied. In Game 7 KJ put up a good 25-11 on 41% but their season ended thanks to Hakeem's 37-17-5 with 3 blocks on 55%. This is the series that KJ had his famous dunk on Hakeem.
1995
KJ's injuries continued to bother him in the 1994/95 season, missing 35 games. KJ, for his standards, had a mediocre 15.5 ppg 7.7 apg on 47% in only 29 minutes per game for 47 games. But as usual, the playoffs are where KJ shined the most.
In the 1995 Playoffs, KJ had 24.8 - 4.1 - 9.3 on an incredible 57% to Barkley's 25.7 - 13.4 - 3.2 on a much less efficient 50%. Once again KJ and Barkley were 1A and 1B for the Suns in the playoffs. The Suns ran into Hakeem's Rockets once again, and KJ outplayed Barkley in the 1995 WCSF just like the previous year. KJ put up 27.9 - 4.4 - 9.4 on 58% to Barkley's 22.3 - 13.3 - 3.1 on a much less efficient 46%, once again accounting for much more points given the huge ppg and apg advantage, even moreso than the 1994 WCSF.
KJ had two 40+ point games in the series, dropping 43-6-9-3 on 75% in the Game 4 win, and 46-3-10 on 12/26 FG and an incredible 21/22 FTs in Game 7. KJ's 46 points and 10 assists in Game 7 is the only 45-point 10-assist performance in Game 7 history, and the greatest offensive output in Game 7 history as well - assuming that all assists are 2 points, KJ accounted for at least 66 points in Game 7. This is also the 2nd-highest scoring performance in Game 7 history, only Sam Jones in 1963 and Dominique Wilkins in 1988 scored more in a Game 7, with 47 apiece. But yet again, Hakeem was unstoppable and thanks to Mario Elie's kiss of death, the Suns fell short to Hakeem in Game 7 for the 2nd year in a row in the WCSF.
With his 1995 Playoff run, KJ achieved an NBA record of 2 playoff runs averaging 24+ ppg, 9+ apg past the 1st round, the other coming in 1994 the year before.
With his 1995 Playoff run, KJ achieved an NBA record of 2 playoff runs averaging 24+ ppg, 9+ apg past the 1st round, the other coming in 1994 the year before.
1996
KJ only played 56 games in the 1995/96 season, but managed to average 18.7 ppg 9.2 apg on 50.7% with 1.5 spg. The Suns had a 30-26 record with KJ, but a losing 11-15 record without him resulting in the Suns having a 41-41 record and first-round exit to David Robinson's Spurs. KJ still had a good series of 17-4-11 on 47% against the Spurs, the first time he had lost in the 1st round since the 1991 Playoffs.
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| Even in his last season as a starter, KJ proved that you could put him on the absolute worst team in the league and still get a solid playoff team out of it. |
1997
The 1996/97 season was an extremely underrated performance by Kevin Johnson. The Suns were 1-11 without KJ in the 12 games he missed, and started the season 0-13. In spite of that, KJ singlehandedly turned them around, and accumulated a 39-31 record when he played, giving the Suns a 40-42 record to end the season. The 39-31 record with KJ would have been 45/46-wins adjusted for a full season, compared to the 1-11 record the Suns had without KJ. This is a key point to remember when considering KJ's level of play. Not only could you rely on KJ to put up good numbers - especially in the playoffs, but you could put him on the absolute worst team in the league and still have a solid playoff team.
Kevin Johnson had a great statistical regular season, averaging 20.1 ppg 9.3 apg on 49.6%. Unfortunately for him, by the time the playoffs came around his multiple injuries as a result of his hernias and surgeries had caught up to him, and he could no longer play at the level he did when he was relatively healthy. KJ only had 17-4-6 on an atrocious 30% FG, and this ended his last year as a starter.
1998
Kevin Johnson had initially planned to retire after the 1996/97 season, but coach Danny Ainge convinced him to stick around for the Suns. KJ no longer put up the great averages that we were accustomed to seeing, but he did have an impact on the W-column when he was given enough playing time. In the 17 games that KJ played 30+ minutes in the 1997/98 season, the Suns had a 15-2 record in those games. Even well past his good years, KJ still had what it took to elevate his team to a high degree when given enough playing time. Kevin Johnson would come out of retirement for the 2000 Playoffs as a backup point guard, and finally retired for good after the Suns lost to the 2000 Lakers in the WCSF, who went on to win the championship.
Now that we've seen a detailed analysis of KJ's career year-by-year, it's time to take a look at the records and accomplishments he had throughout his career. These will give a far better indicator of how good KJ was as a basketball player compared to his lack of accolades while competing against 4 of the top 10 PGs of all-time throughout his prime.
It's also important to note that all 5 of those 20-9 runs went past the first round, so his stats weren't inflated or built off the first round like Chris Paul, who spent 8 of his 12 career playoff series in the first round.
Kevin Johnson had initially planned to retire after the 1996/97 season, but coach Danny Ainge convinced him to stick around for the Suns. KJ no longer put up the great averages that we were accustomed to seeing, but he did have an impact on the W-column when he was given enough playing time. In the 17 games that KJ played 30+ minutes in the 1997/98 season, the Suns had a 15-2 record in those games. Even well past his good years, KJ still had what it took to elevate his team to a high degree when given enough playing time. Kevin Johnson would come out of retirement for the 2000 Playoffs as a backup point guard, and finally retired for good after the Suns lost to the 2000 Lakers in the WCSF, who went on to win the championship.
Now that we've seen a detailed analysis of KJ's career year-by-year, it's time to take a look at the records and accomplishments he had throughout his career. These will give a far better indicator of how good KJ was as a basketball player compared to his lack of accolades while competing against 4 of the top 10 PGs of all-time throughout his prime.
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| KJ has several notable records that he shares with other all-time great PGs, as well as others where he stands alone |
only player with Oscar and Isiah to
- average 20+ ppg 10+ apg for 3 straight years
- Magic also did this in 3 different years, but not consecutive
- KJ almost tied Oscar and Isiah for a record 4th straight year of 20-10, but averaged 19.7 ppg in 1991/92
only player with Magic and Isiah to
- average 20+ ppg 12+ apg in a season
only player with Magic Johnson to
- average 20+ ppg 12+ apg on 50% in a season
- average 20+ ppg 10+ apg on 50% in 2 seasons
-- KJ almost had a record 3rd season of 20-10 on 50% but shot 49.9% in 1989/90
only player with Magic Johnson to
- average 23+ ppg 12+ apg in a playoff run past the first round (1989)
- and the only one to do it past the 2nd round, as Magic lost in the 1990 WCSF when he averaged 25.2 ppg and 12.8 apg
only player with Magic Johnson to
- average 20+ ppg 10+ apg in 3 playoff runs past the first round (1989, 1990, 1992)
- Magic did it a record 4 times (1986, 1987, 1990, 1991)
only player with Magic Johnson to
- average 20+ ppg 10+ apg in 2 playoff runs past the 2nd round (1989, 1990)
- Magic did it a record 3 times (1986, 1987, 1990, 1991)
only player with Magic Johnson to
- average 20+ ppg 10+ apg in 3 playoff runs past the first round (1989, 1990, 1992)
- Magic did it a record 4 times (1986, 1987, 1990, 1991)
only player with Magic Johnson to
- average 20+ ppg 10+ apg in 2 playoff runs past the 2nd round (1989, 1990)
- Magic did it a record 3 times (1986, 1987, 1990, 1991)
only player in NBA History to
- average 23+ ppg 11+ apg in multiple playoffs past the first round, an NBA record
- KJ did this in the 1989 and 1992 Playoff runs, and as we saw earlier, he should have done it a third time, but was injured in the first and last game of the 1990 Playoffs
only player in NBA History to
- average 20+ ppg 9+ apg in 5 different playoff runs past the 1st round, an NBA record
only player in NBA History to
- average 24+ ppg, 9+ apg in 2 playoff runs past the 1st round, an NBA record
only player in NBA History to
- average 24+ ppg, 9+ apg in 2 playoff runs past the 1st round, an NBA record
And in all 5 of his 20-9 Playoff runs, he lost to a team that went on to the Finals (1989 Lakers, 1990 and 1992 Blazers) or won it all (1994 and 1995 Rockets), so he also put up those historic numbers against the best competition. In fact, in 6 out of 9 of KJ's years as a starter, he lost to a team that went on to either make the Finals or win it all, the 6th being the 1993 Bulls.
In his 9 years as a starter (1988/89 to 1996/97)
- KJ averaged 19.8 ppg 10.0 apg on 49.7%
- just short of 20 ppg 10 apg on 50% for his career as a starter
- for his entire 9 years as a starter, KJ nearly averaged what only he and Magic have done in multiple seasons, 20 ppg and 10 apg on 50%
SECTION 3 - Jordan's "Weak" Defensive Competition Compared to Lebron/Kobe's "Advanced" Competition
- Proving the vast superiority of individual defenders of Jordan's era compared to the 2000s
Kevin Johnson had a winning record in every season of his career when he played as a starter
The 1996 and 1997 Suns were 41-41 and 40-42, but we saw earlier that they had a winning record when Kevin Johnson played, and a losing one when he was out. In 1994 and 1995, he was just as good if not better than Barkley in the playoffs, and outperformed him against the eventual champion Rockets in both the 1994 and 1995 WCSF, so KJ deserves just as much credit as Barkley for the team's success in those seasons.
The 1993 season is the only season that you can mainly attribute the Suns' regular season success to Barkley, as he got them 62 wins with KJ out for 33 games, but as we saw in the playoffs the Suns nearly became the first 1-seed to lose to an 8-seed when KJ missed the first game of the playoffs. There is no denying that KJ was a vital component to the Suns winning records every year when he started, both with and without Barkley, and KJ deserves much credit for this achievement.
This accomplishment is actually much rarer than you would think. The only other notable point guards I can think of who accomplished this as the number 1 option consistently were Magic Johnson and Bob Cousy for his first 6 seasons before Russell came to the Celtics (The 1955 Celtics were 36-36, but 0-1 without Cousy). And even in Cousy's case, teams played 66 to 72 games in the pre-Russell years, noticeably less than the 82 game seasons that began towards the end of the Russell era. Stockton and Tony Parker did have a winning record every year as a starter, but they were the 2nd option to Malone and Duncan whereas KJ was usually the number 1 or at least 1A. And even in 1996 when he wasn't the number 1, the Suns still had a losing record without KJ.
The following PGs did not have a winning record every year that they started, though some of them only had one or two 0.500 or losing records in their early years as starters that prevented them from achieving this.
- Oscar Robertson (1961, 1967, 1970)
- Clyde Frazier (1975, 1976, 1977)
- Isiah Thomas (1982, 1983)
- Gary Payton (1991, 1999, 2003)
- Jason Kidd (1995, 1996)
- Chauncey Billups (1998, 1999)
- Steve Nash (1999)
- Chris Paul (2006, 2007)
- Russell Westbrook (2009)
- Steph Curry (2010, 2011)
So this is not an accomplishment that should be taken lightly, as very few PGs have done this. After examining Kevin Johnson's career year-by-year, it is clear that he deserved to be a first-ballot Hall of Famer and should be a consensus top-10 PG of all-time. Had it not been for injuries, KJ would have easily been a top 5 PG of all-time and a top 25 player of all-time.
The only slight criticism you can have on Kevin Johnson's game is that he was an OK, but not great defender. But even so, the point guard position has historically been the weakest position defensively, and the majority of great offensive PGs are not good defensive PGs. Magic, Oscar, Isiah, Nash, Paul, Westbrook, and Curry were never elite defenders in their career (Paul's defensive praise being based on reputation and not on substance). And while there are a decent amount of PGs who were effective on both ends - Payton, Kidd, Billups, Frazier, and Stockton, none of them aside from Stockton had KJ's offensive skills. So aside from Stockton, there is no point guard who had KJ's offensive output and efficiency along with great defense to go with that. Jerry West was an elite defender, but I rank him as a SG rather than a PG, though he could fill both roles.
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Aside from that, there is no flaw in his game. KJ was supremely dominant both statistically and in terms of elevating his team and teammates. This is evidenced by the multitude of regular season and playoff ppg and apg records he shares with other legends like Magic, Oscar, and Isiah - all of whom are near-unanimously considered top-10 PGs of all-time, as well as other records that he holds alone.
We also saw how badly his 2 best pre-Barkley teammates in Eddie Johnson and Tom Chambers struggled badly in the 1990 playoffs during the 2 games KJ was injured and unable to create their offense for them. KJ was also insanely clutch - evidenced by his great performances in Game 7 against the 1993 Sonics and 1994/1995 Rockets.
Jeff Hornacek also had his only all-star season, 20 ppg regular season, and 20 ppg playoff run playing next to KJ. Charles Barkley also had his 3 highest playoff scoring runs past the 1st round (1993, 1994, 1995) while playing next to Kevin Johnson. KJ was one of the all-time greats at making his teammates better.
We also saw how badly his 2 best pre-Barkley teammates in Eddie Johnson and Tom Chambers struggled badly in the 1990 playoffs during the 2 games KJ was injured and unable to create their offense for them. KJ was also insanely clutch - evidenced by his great performances in Game 7 against the 1993 Sonics and 1994/1995 Rockets.
Jeff Hornacek also had his only all-star season, 20 ppg regular season, and 20 ppg playoff run playing next to KJ. Charles Barkley also had his 3 highest playoff scoring runs past the 1st round (1993, 1994, 1995) while playing next to Kevin Johnson. KJ was one of the all-time greats at making his teammates better.
In terms of elevating his team, we saw that KJ is one of only a few PGs to lead their team to a winning record every year in the games he played as a starter, and the Suns were 0-3 in the playoffs during the 3 games he was injured or did not play during his time as a starter. In the 1997 season, which was the last season KJ started, he took the absolute worst team in the league and turned them around from 1-11 without him, and an 0-13 start to the season, to a 39-31 record when KJ played. To be able to turn the absolute worst team in the league - a team that would have been lucky to get 15 wins without him - into a solid playoff team and a 45/46 win pace for 82 games is absolutely incredible. It is clear that Kevin Johnson has the resume of a first-ballot Hall of Famer and a consensus top 10 point guard of all-time, and we can only imagine what more we could have seen had it not been for those hernias taking years off his career.
Only players to average 20-10 (ppg-apg) in multiple playoffs past the 1st round - Magic Johnson x4 (1986, 1987, 1990, 1991) - Kevin Johnson x3 (1989, 1990, 1992) - Steve Nash x2 (2005, 2006) - Deron Williams x2 (2008, 2010) Only players to average 20-10 (ppg-apg) in multiple playoffs past the 2nd round - Magic Johnson x3 (1986, 1987, 1991) - Kevin Johnson x2 (1989, 1990) - Steve Nash x2 (2005, 2006) Only player to average 20+ ppg, 9+ apg in 5 playoff runs - Kevin Johnson, all of which were past the 1st round - 1989, 1990, 1992, 1994, 1995 - this is an NBA record for 20-9 playoff runs, even if you include 1st round exits Only player to average 23-11 (ppg-apg) in multiple playoffs past the 1st round - Kevin Johnson x2 (1989, 1992) - also an NBA record KJ would have done this a 3rd time in 1990, but was injured in his first and last game of the playoffs which brought his averages under the 23-11 cutoff while only playing 9 and 14 minutes in those games. Chambers and Eddie Johnsons stats also plummeted in those games without KJ to feed them.
Only players to average 20-10 (ppg-apg) in multiple playoffs past the 1st round - Magic Johnson x4 (1986, 1987, 1990, 1991) - Kevin Johnson x3 (1989, 1990, 1992) - Steve Nash x2 (2005, 2006) - Deron Williams x2 (2008, 2010) Only players to average 20-10 (ppg-apg) in multiple playoffs past the 2nd round - Magic Johnson x3 (1986, 1987, 1991) - Kevin Johnson x2 (1989, 1990) - Steve Nash x2 (2005, 2006) Only player to average 20+ ppg, 9+ apg in 5 playoff runs - Kevin Johnson, all of which were past the 1st round - 1989, 1990, 1992, 1994, 1995 - this is an NBA record for 20-9 playoff runs, even if you include 1st round exits Only player to average 23-11 (ppg-apg) in multiple playoffs past the 1st round - Kevin Johnson x2 (1989, 1992) - also an NBA record KJ would have done this a 3rd time in 1990, but was injured in his first and last game of the playoffs which brought his averages under the 23-11 cutoff while only playing 9 and 14 minutes in those games. Chambers and Eddie Johnsons stats also plummeted in those games without KJ to feed them.
- Looking at how the Jordan Era players had an easier time in the modern era
- Looking at how a 38-40 year old Jordan himself schooled the 2000s defenders
SECTION 3 - Jordan's "Weak" Defensive Competition Compared to Lebron/Kobe's "Advanced" Competition
- Proving the vast superiority of individual defenders of Jordan's era compared to the 2000s
- Destroying the myth that Jordan never played zone defense
- Proof that 80s/90s players would still have success guarding 2000s players without the 80s/90s rules
- Looking at how Jordan did against the 80s teams and why expansion did not make it easier to win championships
- Proof that Jordan's Competition was 80s-quality and far better than the 2000s era
- Looking at the truth of how the Bulls did without Jordan, and how other great teams did without their stars.
- Did Jordan really get any more special treatment than other superstars? Nope.
- Exposing the myths behind the great, but misunderstood, Wilt Chamberlain
- Looking at how Lebron got locked down by defenders of the 2000s era and comparing them to the vastly superior 80s/90s
- Destroying one of the media's biggest misconceptions regarding Lebron's solid but vastly overrated defense
- Lebron fans think no player in history could succeed if their teammates don't step up, and that Lebron is the only one who has carried a team on his back. Is that really the case?
- The real Jordan vs Lebron comparison
- The real Jordan vs Kobe comparison
- Kareem is great, but he is not even the greatest center of all-time, let alone the greatest of all-time.
- The full context behind Jordan's struggles without Pippen
- A look at how Jordan turned the Wizards around before his knee injury caught up to him
- Looking at Jordan's defensive impact in detail, both as a team player and 1 on 1 defender
- Looking at the strong evidence supporting that Jordan would have achieved more than what LeBron has in Cleveland and Miami
SECTION 21 - Hakeem Olajuwon: The Greatest Center of All-Time
- Hakeem Olajuwon is the best center of all-time, and there is strong evidence to prove it
SECTION 22 - Chris Paul: The Most Overrated Point Guard Of All-Time
- Chris Paul is an extremely overrated playoff performer and defender, and isn't even a top 5 PG of his own era, let alone all-time
SECTION 23 - Kevin Johnson: The Most Underrated Point Guard Of All-Time
- Kevin Johnson is an extremely underrated and under-appreciated point guard, who should have been a first-ballot Hall of Famer and considered a top-10 point guard of all-time
SECTION 24 - The Three Greatest Playoff Runs of All-Time
- Analyzing the three greatest individual playoff runs in NBA history
SECTION 25 - The Worst Finals Performances of All-Time
- Analyzing the worst performances in NBA Finals history
SECTION 26 - Jordan vs Russell
- Comparing the two players who won the most championships as the best player on their team
SECTION 27 - The Five Greatest Coaches of All-Time
- Taking a look at the greatest coaches in NBA history
SECTION 28 - The Least Deserving Finals MVPs of All-Time
- Taking a look at the players who least deserved to win their Finals MVPs
SECTION 29 - Refuting 10 Myths About Michael Jordan
- Refuting certain myths about Jordan, as well as abridging of some of the main points in earlier sections for easier reference.
SECTION 30 - The 20 Greatest Conference Finals Runs of All-Time
- Ranking the 20 greatest playoff runs in which a player played 3 rounds before losing prior to the NBA Finals
SECTION 31 - The 1970s: The Weakest Decade of the NBA's Post-Infancy
- Why the 1970s was the weakest decade of any era from 1960-present
SECTION 32 - The 10 Worst Supporting Casts on NBA Finals Teams (1960-Present)
- Examining the worst supporting casts on teams that reached the NBA Finals
SECTION 33 - The 10 Greatest Rookie Playoff Runs of All-Time
- The most impressive playoff runs in which rookies led their team to at least one series win
SECTION 21 - Hakeem Olajuwon: The Greatest Center of All-Time
- Hakeem Olajuwon is the best center of all-time, and there is strong evidence to prove it
SECTION 22 - Chris Paul: The Most Overrated Point Guard Of All-Time
- Chris Paul is an extremely overrated playoff performer and defender, and isn't even a top 5 PG of his own era, let alone all-time
SECTION 23 - Kevin Johnson: The Most Underrated Point Guard Of All-Time
- Kevin Johnson is an extremely underrated and under-appreciated point guard, who should have been a first-ballot Hall of Famer and considered a top-10 point guard of all-time
SECTION 24 - The Three Greatest Playoff Runs of All-Time
- Analyzing the three greatest individual playoff runs in NBA history
SECTION 25 - The Worst Finals Performances of All-Time
- Analyzing the worst performances in NBA Finals history
SECTION 26 - Jordan vs Russell
- Comparing the two players who won the most championships as the best player on their team
SECTION 27 - The Five Greatest Coaches of All-Time
- Taking a look at the greatest coaches in NBA history
SECTION 28 - The Least Deserving Finals MVPs of All-Time
- Taking a look at the players who least deserved to win their Finals MVPs
SECTION 29 - Refuting 10 Myths About Michael Jordan
- Refuting certain myths about Jordan, as well as abridging of some of the main points in earlier sections for easier reference.
SECTION 30 - The 20 Greatest Conference Finals Runs of All-Time
- Ranking the 20 greatest playoff runs in which a player played 3 rounds before losing prior to the NBA Finals
SECTION 31 - The 1970s: The Weakest Decade of the NBA's Post-Infancy
- Why the 1970s was the weakest decade of any era from 1960-present
SECTION 32 - The 10 Worst Supporting Casts on NBA Finals Teams (1960-Present)
- Examining the worst supporting casts on teams that reached the NBA Finals
SECTION 33 - The 10 Greatest Rookie Playoff Runs of All-Time
- The most impressive playoff runs in which rookies led their team to at least one series win
Make one about the overrated 2015-16 Warriors. This team starting 35-2 shows how watered down the league is. 1995-96 Warriors would beat 2015-16 Warriors.
ReplyDeleteLove this article. It's a damn Crime KJ isn't in the HOF.
ReplyDeleteQuestion for you
Most underrated defender of all time? Personally I say Shawn Marion. Carried the Suns defensively guarding 1-4 and didn't even make all defense once.
Shawn Marion is pretty underrated. There's a couple other guys that might be more underrated though.
DeleteLatrell Sprewell didn't have enough playoff runs to establish a reputation as a lockdown defender, but he completely shut down prime Vince in the 2000 and 2001 playoffs after Vince had his 2 best scoring seasons. He also did his job in slowing down Kobe in the 2004 WCF, his own numbers weren't far behind Kobe's
Anthony Mason was also pretty underrated. He could guard 2-5, and did the best job out of anyone in guarding prime Hakeem. Obviously he couldn't stop Hakeem, nobody could, but he did the best job in making him work and momentarily slow him down. When he replaced Alonzo in 2001 because of his kidney problems, the Heat defense improved compared to 2000 when Alonzo won DPOY, though part of this was because Bruce Bowen started for the first time in his career in 2001.
Jason Kidd has a lot of defensive accolades, but I still feel people have already forgotten how good he was on defense. He took the Nets from top 10 worst defense in 2001 to top 5 and top 2 best defense in ppg allowed in 2002 and 2003 as the only notable addition, and back to back Finals. His man to man was also underrated, he did a great job on 2006 Wade when he guarded him. He also led the 2002 Nets in rebounding for the playoffs and Finals which is insane for a PG. He's the best rebounding guard ever after Magic, who was built like a SF, as he has a record 13 seasons of 6+ rpg, a record for all guards, not just PGs. Again he has the accolades, but I still don't think he gets the credit for his defense today.
So I don't really have a definite answer, but those guys are all in the mix. Bobby Jones, Mookie Blaylock, and Caldwell Jones are also underrated. theres probably others I'm forgetting too
Like all those answers. I feel like the only reason Marion didn't get awarded at all for his defense was because of the team he was on. Suns we're such a fantastic offensive team that Matrix's defense got overlooked and when the Suns traded him their defensive rated went from 17th too 26th I believe.
DeleteEven with the Mavs he was still a really good defender. Played great defense on LeBron in the 2011 finals when he was guarding him and the series before that Durant shot 42% + Marion blocked his game winning three point attempt.
I'd also say D-Wade is underrated defender. Played great defense on Westbrook in the 2012 finals and was a one man wrecking crew on defense against the Mavs in 2011. Bailed LeBron out a few times.
I didn't think you could top it but you managed to pull off another one-sided excuse making article that has everybody fooled but me
ReplyDeleteThe most glaring misconception is your take on winning records as a starter, the problem with that is none of the point guards came off the bench they're entire career except GP, and that was only for a year, KJ came off the bench his first couple of years and his last few years so it's not comparable
The other point you make that is so misleading is that the reason KJ don't have the accolades is because of who he had to play against.
ReplyDeleteMagic retired in 92
Isiah retired in 94
The difference between Chris Paul and KJ is that CP rose above his competition while playing. KJ wasn't able to seperate himself from other elite point guards, even Tim Hardaway made 5 all-star teams, Mark Price even made the all star team in that era, so it's not about who was playing while he played, it's about rising above your competition, the 2010s western conf is much more competitive than who KJ had to play in the 90s and there are way more superstar point guards now than ever in the history of the nba, so stop using that as an excuse
"KJ came off the bench his first couple of years and his last few years so it's not comparable"
DeleteKJ only came off the bench his rookie season, not his first couple of years, and was injured after 1997. In 1998 he played 50 games and only started 12, and in 2000 he played only 6 games off the bench. So his years off the bench are irrelevant when discussing this record
"Magic retired in 92, Isiah retired in 94"
That's almost all of KJ's healthy career. In 95, 96, and 97, his last starter years, he competed against prime Stockton and Payton in the same conference, who are both better than any PG in the post-Jordan era aside from Curry
Chris Paul has rarely competed against any all-time great caliber PGs in his whole career. Parker, Wall, Lowry, Lillard, Irving, Rondo, Billups etc. dont even begin to compare to Magic, Isiah, Payton, and Stockton. Even Kidd and Nash (both of whom are better than Paul) dont measure up to that level of competition. Curry is the only PG who is better than Isiah, Stockton, and Payton, but even he isn't on Magic's level. and it's only since 2012/13 that Paul competed against a Curry that was good
So I would hope that CP3 separated himself from his comp, as he hasn't been facing near the level of competition at his position that KJ did, and he gets whooped when he does face them in the playoffs as he was outplayed by Billups 09, Parker 12, Curry 14, Westbrook 14. How has he separated himself from other PGs when he almost always gets whooped by notable PGs when he faces them in the playoffs when it matters most?
Tim Hardaway making 5 all-star teams while having far less impressive regular season and playoff records compared to KJ is simply more proof of what a joke the all-star process is and further confirms how overlooked KJ is. you're only helping prove my point of how underrated he is when you bring up his lack of subjective media accolades.
You need to stop relying so heavily on media accolades and all-star selections which are extremely subjective and flawed, and look at the cold, hard, objective facts and records. These are far more accurate indicators of KJ's status as a player than flawed and biased media accolades - especially considering KJ's far superior competition
Deleteonly player with Oscar and Isiah to
- average 20+ ppg 10+ apg for 3 straight years
- Magic also did this in 3 different years, but not consecutive
- KJ almost tied Oscar and Isiah for a record 4th straight year of 20-10, but averaged 19.7 ppg in 1991/92
only player with Magic and Isiah to
- average 20+ ppg 12+ apg in a season
only player with Magic Johnson to
- average 20+ ppg 12+ apg on 50% in a season
- average 20+ ppg 10+ apg on 50% in 2 seasons
-- KJ almost had a record 3rd season of 20-10 on 50% but shot 49.9% in 1989/90
only player with Magic Johnson to
- average 23+ ppg 12+ apg in a playoff run past the first round (1989)
- and the only one to do it past the 2nd round, as Magic lost in the 1990 WCSF when he averaged 25.2 ppg and 12.8 apg
only player with Magic Johnson to
- average 20+ ppg 10+ apg in 3 playoff runs past the first round (1989, 1990, 1992)
- Magic did it a record 4 times (1986, 1987, 1990, 1991)
only player in NBA History to
- average 23+ ppg 11+ apg in multiple playoffs past the first round
- KJ did this in the 1989 and 1992 Playoff runs, and as we saw earlier, he should have done it a third time, but was injured in the first and last game of the 1990 Playoffs
only player in NBA History to
- average 20+ ppg 9+ apg in 5 different playoff runs, an NBA record
It's also important to note that all 5 of those 20-9 runs went past the first round, so his stats weren't inflated or built off the first round like Chris Paul, who spent 7 of his 11 career playoff series in the first round.
And in all 5 of his 20-9 Playoff runs, he lost to a team that went on to the Finals (1989 Lakers, 1990 and 1992 Blazers) or won it all (1994 and 1995 Rockets), so he also put up those historic numbers against the best competition. In fact, in 6 out of 9 of KJ's years as a starter, he lost to a team that went on to either make the Finals or win it all, the 6th being the 1993 Bulls.
In his 9 years as a starter (1988/89 to 1996/97)
- KJ averaged 19.8 ppg 10.0 apg on 49.7%
- just short of 20 ppg 10 apg on 50% for his career as a starter
- for his entire 9 years as a starter, KJ nearly averaged what only he and Magic have done in multiple seasons, 20 ppg and 10 apg on 50%
Clearly KJ was far, far, far, more impressive of a player than a typical 3x all-star - and has vastly superior individual and team accomplishments compared to Paul - especially factoring in that Paul never played a team good enough to make the Finals, and spent 7 of 11 series in the 1st round
I'm getting extremely tired of hearing the same arguments and repeating myself over and over, so can we just agree to disagree on this topic and leave it alone? it's clear we're never going to change our opinions on it
How is Chris Paul the most overrated point guard and Kevin Johnson the most underrated point guard, It doesn't make sense. Kevin Johnson isn't underrated, he's rated right where he's supposed to be with the likes of Tim Hardaway, Mark Price, Rod Strickland, Penny Hardaway, all point guards who were good but never lived up to they're full potential after injuries, you can't reward players just because they got injured and say what they could've done. The most Overrated PGs have been Jeremy Lin, Ricky Rubio, Rajon Rondo. Chris Paul doesn't fit the criteria because he has great stats and have the accolades to bag it up, the most underrated point guards have been Dennis Johnson, Rod Strickland, Alvin Robertson, players who never get the credit for what they did.
ReplyDeleteYour argument that CP3 is the most overrated all time is hypocritical because you have him listed as 12 on your list, any Joe Smo with a brain can make the case for Paul over Westbrook, Chauncey and KJ
which give or take 2 players would make him top ten even in your rankings. So there's a big contradiction right there.
The isn't a Chris Paul vs Kevin Johnson thing because it's really not debatable who the better point guard is.
Most of the stat records you listed overlap each other, you can't "be the only player to" and then say along with these two or three players
All I have to do is add steals to all those stats with less turnovers and I guarantee Chris Paul would literally be "the only player to"
Your article on CP is so bias it's unbelievable
ReplyDeleteIf I bring up stats, it's because of weaker competition, if that's the case then every pg would have those numbers, every pg would be all nba team, every pg would be all def 1st team, anybody can argue great stats, but at no point in your article did you bring up leadership which is something that can't be measured, but the closest to measuring would be the annual GM survey who voted Chris Paul as
Best leader in the nba
Best passer in the nba
Player with the highest basketball IQ
Voted most likely to make the best head coach someday
Also the players voted as President of the Players Association
For 7 out of the past ten years he's been voted best point guard in the nba by GMs
Those are the things that set CP apart from every other player in the nba
It's funny how you dismiss accolades but that's what your career is measured by, not how many playoff series you won because nobody remembers that unless you win titles.
If I bring up all stars, it's doesn't matter because of fan voting,
the fans have been voting for past 40 years, if you're not popular enough then obviously your play should warrant the coaches selections
If I bring up defense, CP is overrated because he just plays passing lanes and it's based off of reputation...
that's so ridiculous because if that were the case then Allen Iverson would be all def 1st team because he led the league in steals 3 times, Magic Johnson led twice, John Stockton also led twice and none of them have been all def 1st team, with Magic Iverson being much more popular than Chris Paul ever was. Obviously you don't watch clippers games because if you did then you would see that most of his steals come from man on man defense and not off passing lanes, this isn't nba2k
Just look at head to head of nba superstars at his position. Chris Paul owns nearly every point guard in the nba statistically head to head, and it's no exaggeration. Those are facts
If you bring up efficiency, it's just a made up stat, NEWS FLASH, every stat is a made up stat, real fans know that it's more to basketball than just pts,asts,rebs,blks and stls. That's why they're called advanced stats for people like you who make uninformed arguments as padded stats in the playoffs, how can your stats be padded if those numbers are your career averages. It's not like CP is so dominate in the playoffs that's unseen in the regular season, his numbers just as great in the season as they are in the postseason so how can they be padded?
If I bring up Hall of Fame, once again you blame it on the era,
ReplyDeleteThe Hall of Fame is validation that you've had a standout career, Kevin Johnson is nowhere near making it and it's not because he's a rapist, yet Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller, Clyde Drexler, Dominique all are HOFers that played in the same era as Mike with the same position, no excuses,
The only thing you can bring up is that he hasn't made the conference finals, yet it's a lot of players that never made it to the 3 3rd round
*Dave Bing
*John Wall
*Mookie Blaylock
*Raymond Felton
*Darren Collisin
*Rod Strickland
*Gilbert Arenas
Ben Gordon
*Kyle Lowry
*Stephon Marbury 1
*Baron Davis 3
*Andre Miller 1
*Damian Lillard
*Steve Francis 1
*Sherman Douglas
*Ricky Rubio
Point guards that have championships that aren't future Hall of Famers
Rings but not Hall of Fame
*Derek Fisher 5
*Steve Kerr 5
*BJ Armstrong 3
*Brian Shaw 3
*John Paxson 3
*Kenny Smith 2
*Mario Chalmers 2
*Avery Johnson 1
*Maurice Cheeks 1
*Rajon Rondo 1
Point guards that made it to the finals that aren't considered hall of Famers
*Terry Porter 2
Mike Bibby 1
*Jalen Rose 1
David Wesley 1
James Harden 1
*Kevin Johnson 1
*Charlie Ward 1
*Penny Hardaway 1
*Devin Harris 1
*Lenny Wilkens 1
*Nate Robinson 1
Point Guards that made it to the conf finals
That won't make the hall of fame
Kenny Anderson
Nick Van Exal 1
Mike Conley 1
Derrick Rose 1
Tim Hardaway 1
So as you can see, accolades matter because if they didn't then your so called stats wouldn't matter and you would be in the category with all the other so called good players that played on bad teams that can't hide their flaws in good teams. Every player wants to be recognized for they're player, if not then what's the point?
ReplyDeleteWhat separates the good from the great, is the respect from the fans, peers, teammates, legends, media, gms, and owners. Chris Paul has that respect which is why he's rated where he is, KJ is not which is why he's left off of most greatest players list....He didn't even make ESPN top 100 list, yet Chris Paul is top 30 all time, KJ was 96 on Bill Simmons book of basketball, pretty much every notable and respected sports journalist have Chris Paul as a top 10 of all time, it's just ridiculous that you underrate him to compensate, then you overrate KJ because he's so often left out. Yes, he went to the finals, but what will his career be remembered for? It won't because he won't have a ceremony, CP will and that's pretty much what matters
every single point you've brought up has already been refuted in our conversations and already addressed in both the KJ and CP3 article. stop repeating yourself and spamming the comments with the same rhetoric over and over
DeleteKJ had far superior records that he shares with Magic, Oscar, Isiah, and others that he achieved himself, both in the playoffs and regular season and while playing better teams - Paul has NEVER played a team that even reached the NBA Finals, and spent 7 of his 11 career playoff series in the first round. making his stats extremely protected and inflated like McGrady because they come from less games per playoff run and against easier opponents - and he's lost despite having plenty of help in a lot of them
the fact that Mitch Richmond made the HoF and KJ didn't just further proves how accolades are far from the determining factor in judging players. You will never find anywhere near enough objective evidence to rank Richmond over KJ as a player which further shows why always relying on what other people say isn't a good thing to do
the guys you listed making the CF or winning rings never put up records as impressive as KJ did in his CF or best playoff runs, so bringing them up is irrelevant. the guys you listed who didnt make the 3rd round aren't that impressive, and further confirms to me that Paul belongs in a much lower tier. and KJ's playoff records that he shares with other all-time great PGs is far superior and more impressive than CP3's accolades
"Chris Paul owns nearly every point guard in the nba statistically head to head, and it's no exaggeration. Those are facts"
No, that's not a fact. That's total rhetoric. Paul was outplayed in the playoffs in almost all matchups against notable PGs - Billups 09, Parker 12, Curry 14, Westbrook 14, and Parker in 08 put up the same averages that he did in the season and nailed the series-clinching jumper in Paul's overrated face in Game 7.
KJ didn't reach his full potential because of injuries - and still had some of the most impressive playoff records - both shared and unshared - of all-time, while playing the best competition. I've copy pasted these over and over but you keep ignoring the objective, unbiased, documented and historical facts which are far more accurate in judging players than opinion-based and subjective media accolades
I dont care what other media people say regarding CP3 and KJ's ranking. They obviously haven't looked into KJ's career well enough or are using his off-court controversy as an excuse to lower him which doesn't have anything to do with his skill as a basketball player. Just because other media outlets say so doesn't make it gospel or infallible
also you say I didn't mention leadership regarding KJ - he's a vastly superior leader than Chris Paul and there is much evidence for this listed in the articles
DeleteHe led his own team to the 1989 and 1990 WCF without Barkley, upsetting MVP Magic Johnson in the process in 1990, and putting up historic averages
In the 1990 Playoffs, Tom Chambers shot 5/16 (31%) in both of those games that KJ was injured against the Jazz and Blazers, and had 4 and 5 turnovers in those games. proof that Tom Chambers was useless on the Suns unless he was playing alongside KJ. Eddie Johnson only had 5 points on 1/4 (25%) FG in the Jazz game that KJ was injured and 11 points on 3/11 (27%) FG in the Blazers game that KJ was injured, more proof that KJ's teammates were only putting up good numbers on the Suns if they were playing next to KJ.
On the other hand, however, Blake Griffin averaged 30-15-9 on 52% without Chris Paul in the first 2 games against the 2015 Rockets, getting the Clippers a 1-1 split on the road - proving that he could play just fine without the overrated Paul holding him back. Clearly KJ's teammates were more dependent on him for success than the overrated Paul, as their offensive game was nowhere to be found when KJ was out.
The 1990 Suns lost both of those playoff games that KJ left due to injury/illness. They were 0-2 without KJ in the 1990 Playoffs when he left due to injury and 9-5 when he was healthy. Add in Game 1 of the 1993 1st round when the Suns lost to the 8 seed Lakers when KJ did not play, and KJ's Suns were 0-3 in the playoffs when KJ played less than 15 minutes due to injury or did not play at all during his time as a starter. More proof that KJ is MUCH better than CP3 at making the guys around him better - as the Clippers got a 1-1 split on the road without the overrated Paul against the Rockets and stole homecourt
1996/97
Suns = 39-31 (0.557 win%) with KJ
Suns = 1-11 (0.083 win%) without KJ (no Barkley)
The 1997 Suns were easily the worst team in the league without KJ and would be lucky to crack 15 wins. When he played, they had a very respectable 0.557 win% which is a 45 or 46 win pace. This was the last relatively healthy season of KJ's career, after this his injuries and hernias caught up to him. Even in his last good season, KJ had more team impact than Chris Paul can ever dream of. You can put a relatively healthy KJ on the absolute worst team in the league, and they will still be a solid playoff team at the worst. If you put Chris Paul on a 1-11 team they won't even crack 0.500 with Paul in the lineup. The 2010 Hornets team was only 23-22 when Paul played and 14-23 when he didn't play. he barely got them a 0.500 record and they were much better than KJ's 1997 team
KJ = clearly a vastly superior leader than Paul. Not simply superior, but VASTLY superior
And this is based on objective, documented and historical facts, not opinion-based rhetoric such as GM surveys or media accolades
"If you bring up efficiency, it's just a made up stat, NEWS FLASH, every stat is a made up stat, real fans know that it's more to basketball than just pts,asts,rebs,blks and stls. That's why they're called advanced stats"
DeleteThere is more to the game than your stats, such as how KJ elevated his team and teammates to a far higher degree than Paul, while playing more games per playoff run and against better teams, 6 of 9 playoff runs in his career as a starter coming against teams that made the Finals or won it all (Paul has never faced a team that made the Finals)
and advanced stats are far from accurate in judging players.
Tracy McGrady in Orlando and Houston years had a 25.4 playoff PER which would be 6th all-time ahead of Paul - but clearly this is the product of first-round inflated stats coming from less games per playoff run - much like Paul's overrated stats with 7 of his 11 series coming in the first round, and against teams who weren't good enough to make the Finals
David Robinson is top 4 in PER, but not even a top 5 center of all-time in nearly every educated bball fans list. Durant and Dirk have higher playoff PERs than Magic, Kareem, Wilt, and Bird
Win shares are also pointless. Ginobili had more WS than Duncan in the 2005 Playoffs, Clyde had more than Hakeem in the 1995 Playoffs, Horace Grant had more than Pippen in the 1992 and 1993 Playoffs, Mutombo had more than Iverson in the 2001 Playoffs, etc.
so "advanced" stats are extremely flawed and arbitrary numbers created by people who can't come up with better methods to evaluate players
The Kevin Johnson
ReplyDelete- not selected for an Olympic team, only Rio
- not selected for the Hall of Fame
- not selected for a All NBA 1st team
- not selected for any All Def teams
- never led the league in any category except turnovers
- never a top 5 MVP candidate
- only a 3x all star, 26 PGs have made 4
- ranks outside of ESPN top 100
- ranked outside of top 250 players in PER
I've already addressed all this stuff in previous posts. KJs lack of flawed media accolades and irrelevant stats like PER don't matter at all, his statistical records that he shares with Magic Oscar Isiah and on his own speak for themselves
DeleteI'm not going to repeat everything over and over. If you don't think KJ is anything special then that's fine with me.
When it comes to Chris Paul, everyone acts like making the conference finals is the "Holy Grail" of accomplishments for point guards. If that were true then (Mark Price, Tim Hardaway, Kenny Anderson, and Rod Strickland would all be surefire HOFers by now. They've all made it to the conf. finals at least once. The fact is, even if he made the conf. finals it still wouldn't be enough..i.e. Steve Nash made it to the conf. finals 4 times only to be criticized for never making the Finals. Even if he made it to the finals they would still find all kind of ways to hate...i.e. Elgin Baylor made it to the NBA finals 8 times during his career. Is he not considered a winner? Even after you win "RINGS" somehow they still find a way to not respect it. Lebron James won 2 chips in Miami and the media killed him for it. Even (Dennis Johnson) who won 3 rings and Finals MVP didn't make it to the HOF until 3 years after he died and 20 years after he retired. There are over 5600 players that have circulated in NBA history. 493 players have won at least one championship ring. Only 112 NBA players have been inducted into the basketball hall of fame out of 5600. There are currently 35 first ballot HOFs in the history of NBA. Chris Paul will be a 1st ballot HOFer with or without a conference finals appearance. The Hall of Fame is a much more coveted achievement than any 3rd round, finals appearance or championship ever could be.
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't change the Hall of Fame being an extremely flawed and subjective process, as Kevin Johnson has far superior team success and individual numbers than Paul (which have been listed numerous times) with lesser teams prior to Barkley in 1993.
DeleteAlso none of the guys you listed aside from Baylor and Lebron contributed more to their deep playoff runs than KJ did so that comparison is not valid. That's as pointless as the Robert Horry ring argument.
Nash Lebron and Baylor are criticized for playoff shortcomings, but their shortcomings are nowhere near as bad as Pauls and they all played against better teams.
Playing 7 of your 11 series in the first round and still failing to make it to the CF despite never playing a Finals caliber team and having great help on top of that deserves extremely harsh criticism.
So let me get this straight!!!
ReplyDeleteYou value statistics but you don't value awards
You value careers hobbled by injuries but you don't value durability and consistency
You value the 90s but you overrate Stephen Curry that plays in the same era as Chris Paul
You say Chris Paul's defense is non existent because he just plays passing lanes to win steals titles but Iverson is overwhelmingly more popular than Chris Paul and never made a defensive team yet led the NBA in steals 3 times.
You say PER, Hall of Fame and all star appearances are all extremely flawed all because it works against Kevin Johnsons case but you put KJ over Tony Parker, Bob Cousy, Walt Frazier, Dennis Johnson who've all had better post season careers.
Youve knocked every form of recognition and tried to compensate by extremely overrating KJ
and underrating Chris Paul but yet you had him listed as 12th greatest point guard.
I'm sorry but I just don't understand your contradictions. If your top 10 criteria starts with making the conference finals, then it didn't take a article for you to say that, but if your criteria starts with durability, consistency, and placing yourself amongst the absolute best for more than a four year period, then I just don't see how
you go about ranking players, please state your criteria before you overrate or underrate players
the most basic criteria is putting up good numbers in multiple deep playoff runs factored in with competition. this is where McGrady and Paul suffer because there numbers were built in the 1st round against teams that weren't good enough to make the Finals. also none of those guys you mentioned have better postseason careers, they have more rings by playing on much better teams but KJ's individual runs are much better. none of those guys were the best player on any of their championships including Dennis Johnson, as Gus Wiliams (27-4-4-2 on 48%) was the better player in the 79 playoff run
DeleteIverson is also not a good defender, so its a good thing he didn't make defense teams. Chris Paul being an overrated defender is backed up by getting outplayed in almost all playoff meetings with notable PGs
also even with KJ's injuries, he accomplished more in his few healthy years than most PGs have in their entire healthy careers - including all the guys you mentioned in that post
This is my last time responding to anything related to KJ or Chris Paul. KJ had far superior individual runs in the playoffs than the overrated Paul - in deeper rounds and against better teams, while playing on lesser teams up to 1992
only player with Oscar and Isiah to
- average 20+ ppg 10+ apg for 3 straight years
- Magic also did this in 3 different years, but not consecutive
- KJ almost tied Oscar and Isiah for a record 4th straight year of 20-10, but averaged 19.7 ppg in 1991/92
only player with Magic and Isiah to
- average 20+ ppg 12+ apg in a season
only player with Magic Johnson to
- average 20+ ppg 12+ apg on 50% in a season
- average 20+ ppg 10+ apg on 50% in 2 seasons
-- KJ almost had a record 3rd season of 20-10 on 50% but shot 49.9% in 1989/90
only player with Magic Johnson to
- average 23+ ppg 12+ apg in a playoff run past the first round (1989)
- and the only one to do it past the 2nd round, as Magic lost in the 1990 WCSF when he averaged 25.2 ppg and 12.8 apg
only player with Magic Johnson to
- average 20+ ppg 10+ apg in 3 playoff runs past the first round (1989, 1990, 1992)
- Magic did it a record 4 times (1986, 1987, 1990, 1991)
only player in NBA History to
- average 23+ ppg 11+ apg in multiple playoffs past the first round
- KJ did this in the 1989 and 1992 Playoff runs, and as we saw earlier, he should have done it a third time, but was injured in the first and last game of the 1990 Playoffs
only player in NBA History to
- average 20+ ppg 9+ apg in 5 different playoff runs, an NBA record
It's also important to note that all 5 of those 20-9 runs went past the first round, so his stats weren't inflated or built off the first round like Chris Paul, who spent 7 of his 11 career playoff series in the first round.
And in all 5 of his 20-9 Playoff runs, he lost to a team that went on to the Finals (1989 Lakers, 1990 and 1992 Blazers) or won it all (1994 and 1995 Rockets), so he also put up those historic numbers against the best competition. In fact, in 6 out of 9 of KJ's years as a starter, he lost to a team that went on to either make the Finals or win it all, the 6th being the 1993 Bulls.
In his 9 years as a starter (1988/89 to 1996/97)
- KJ averaged 19.8 ppg 10.0 apg on 49.7%
- just short of 20 ppg 10 apg on 50% for his career as a starter
- for his entire 9 years as a starter, KJ nearly averaged what only he and Magic have done in multiple seasons, 20 ppg and 10 apg on 50%
Kevin Johnson had a winning record in every season of his career when he played as a starter
Chris Paul, and most PGs can never match any of those accomplishments, and that's why KJ is far superior to all of them. These are all objective accomplishments, not affected by media or market bias such as popularity-based all-star games and Hall of Fame inductions
From here on, I am ignoring all KJ or CP3 related posts. any other questions you have will already have been answered in our prior discussions. good day
Lol, I don't need you to respond to your lame bias articles. Kick Rocks and Good day as well
ReplyDeleteThis is my last time responding to any of your ridiculous articles