Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is definitely a top 10 player of all-time. But he is not the greatest of all time. He is not even the greatest center of all time. Kareem might have some great records, like number of all-star games and number 1 on the regular season scoring list, but we will see that Kareem doesn't measure up to the likes of Jordan and Hakeem in the playoffs, where it actually matters most, and Hakeem and Jordan outperformed him overall in the regular season anyway. And after playing 20 seasons, the vast majority of them with the two greatest point guards in NBA history (Oscar + Magic) feeding him the ball, one would at the very least expect for Kareem to be the number 1 scorer of all time. Even by cumulative stats, Hakeem is the only player who is top 15 in 4 out of 5 categories, despite having only 13 healthy seasons (1985 to 1997). Kevin Garnett is the only other player who is top 20 in 4 of 5 main categories.
Kareem can have the regular season records. Even Mark Jackson has more assists than Magic, Oscar, Isiah, and Payton. That doesn't make him better. Karl Malone has more points than Shaq, Wilt, and MJ. Doesn't mean he's a better scorer. Kareem is the number 1 scorer of all time in the regular season, and has a regular season rebounding title, but he got outscored and outrebounded by Moses Malone in both the 1981 First round and 1983 Finals, losing both times coming off of championship seasons. This also happened against Hakeem in 1986, after coming off a Finals MVP season, and against Dave Cowens in Game 7 of the 1974 Finals.
Kareem might have the most MVPs. But again, those are regular season accomplishments. Moses Malone has more MVPs than Duncan, Hakeem, Kobe, and Shaq. That doesn't mean he's better. Kareem also won 5 of his MVPs in the weak 70s when Wilt and Reed were at the end of their career or retired. Aside from 1980 when he won MVP over Moses Malone and Dr. J, Kareem never competed against notable competition in his MVP seasons. His MVP competition in the weak 70s was the likes of Dave Cowens and Bob Mcadoo. Jordan, Hakeem, and many more would have won 6+ MVPs in the weak 70s.
Kareem's 4th MVP came in the 1975/76 season, when Kareem's Lakers had a 40-42 record and didn't even make the playoffs. His 6th MVP came in the same season when Magic Johnson won the series-deciding Game 6 of the 1980 Finals - WITHOUT Kareem who was sitting at home. Kareem wasnt even the best player on his team in the 1980 Finals when he won his 6th MVP. Can you imagine if Pippen clinched the title without Jordan, dropping 42-15-7? We'd never hear the end of it.
Hakeem and Jordan had to compete against prime Bird, prime Magic, and each other, all of whom are pretty much unanimously considered top 10 players of all-time, with Jordan as the most common GOAT candidate. Kareem never competed against one MVP candidate of Bird, Jordan, Hakeem, and Magic's caliber in the 70s, let alone 3 or 4. And this is without factoring in that Hakeem's supporting casts were much worse compared to Magic, Bird, and Jordan's, whereas Kareem had the 2 best PGs of all-time for all but 2 of his MVP seasons (one of those seasons in which Kareem missed the playoffs with a sub-500 record), in one of the weakest MVP talent pools in league history.
Even the second-tier MVP competition of Hakeem and Jordan's era, Robinson, Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Ewing, Drexler, Shaq, Isiah, etc. vastly outclassed the first-tier MVP competition of the 70s like Cowens and Mcadoo. Even Kevin Johnson, who was only a 3-time all star in the stacked 90s, was superior than the majority of Kareem's 70s MVP competition.
Kevin Johnson's accomplishments
only player with Oscar and Isiah to
- average 20+ ppg 10+ apg for 3 straight years
- Magic also did this in 3 different years, but not consecutive
- KJ almost tied Oscar and Isiah for a record 4th straight year of 20-10, but averaged 19.7 ppg in 1991/92
only player with Magic and Isiah to
- average 20+ ppg 12+ apg in a season
only player with Magic Johnson to
- average 20+ ppg 12+ apg on 50% in a season
- average 20+ ppg 10+ apg on 50% in 2 seasons
-- KJ almost had a record 3rd season of 20-10 on 50% but shot 49.9% in 1989/90
only player with Magic Johnson to
- average 23+ ppg 12+ apg in a playoff run past the first round (1989)
- and the only one to do it past the 2nd round, as Magic lost in the 1990 WCSF when he averaged 25.2 ppg and 12.8 apg
only player with Magic Johnson to
- average 20+ ppg 10+ apg in 3 playoff runs past the first round (1989, 1990, 1992)
- Magic did it a record 4 times (1986, 1987, 1990, 1991)
only player with Magic Johnson to
- average 20+ ppg 10+ apg in 3 playoff runs past the first round (1989, 1990, 1992)
- Magic did it a record 4 times (1986, 1987, 1990, 1991)
only player in NBA History to
- average 23+ ppg 11+ apg in multiple playoffs past the first round
- KJ did this in the 1989 and 1992 Playoff runs, and as we saw earlier, he should have done it a third time, but was injured in the first and last game of the 1990 Playoffs
Only player to average 24+ ppg, 9+ apg in 2 playoff runs past the 1st round
- Kevin Johnson x2 (1994, 1995), an NBA record
only player in NBA History to
- average 20+ ppg 9+ apg in 5 different playoff runs, an NBA record
And in all 5 of his 20-9 Playoff runs, he lost to a team that went on to the Finals (1989 Lakers, 1990 and 1992 Blazers) or won it all (1994 and 1995 Rockets), so he also put up those historic numbers against the best competition. In fact, in 6 out of 9 of KJ's years as a starter, he lost to a team that went on to either make the Finals or win it all, the 6th being the 1993 Bulls.
In his 9 years as a starter (1988/89 to 1996/97)
- KJ averaged 19.8 ppg 10.0 apg on 49.7%
- just short of 20 ppg 10 apg on 50% for his career as a starter
- for his entire 9 years as a starter, KJ nearly averaged what only he and Magic have done in multiple seasons, 20 ppg and 10 apg on 50%
In KJ's career as a starter, the Suns were 0-3 in playoff games that he missed (1993) or played less than 15 minutes due to injury (1990 x2). The only PG of the 70s that was better than 90s' 3x all-star Kevin Johnson was the one on Kareem's Bucks team, and you can make a strong case that prime, healthy KJ was better than Oscar. Oscar may be better than KJ all-time simply because KJ's career was cut short by injuries, limiting his potential.
And even if you do want to bring up MVPs, MJ clearly deserved MVP in 1997, when he led the Bulls to the 2nd best record in history at 69-13, even with Longley, Kukoc, and Rodman missing 23, 25, and 27 games. Malone won MVP despite having no notable players miss a lot of games and leading them to a lesser 64-18 record when the West was an easier conference than the East. Jordan would go on to become the closest player to join Hakeem in leading a championship team in 5/5 categories during the playoffs, as he was only 10 rebounds (0.53 rpg) and 1 block (0.05 bpg) shy of leading the Bulls in 5/5 during the playoffs, at age 34 no less.
And then he scored/assisted 50% of his team points in the 1997 Finals, assuming all assists = 2 points. As far as I know, LeBron is the only other player to do this in an NBA Finals (2015), and he jacked up 33 shots a game while shooting under 40% to do so, and while playing no defense at all. Kareem never came close to carrying a team like Jordan did in 1997, especially when you consider the 1997 Bulls team is the only team to win the title with only two players averaging double figures in the playoffs - Jordan and Pippen at 19 ppg on a poor 42%. Every other Bull had under 8 ppg in the 1997 Playoffs.
You can make the case MJ deserved 8 MVPs, when he became the only player in NBA history to average 32.5-8-8 on 54% with 3 spg in 1988/89, while also leading a 6 seed Bulls team to the ECF, and shutting down Isiah Thomas to 39% shooting in the 1989 ECF. No other team besides Jordan's Bulls beat the 1989 Pistons in a playoff game, which the Bulls did twice. And then the 1990 season and playoff run also proved Jordan was the best individual player.
On top of that, when Barkley, Robinson, and Malone won MVPs over Hakeem, they all had far superior supporting casts. However, Hakeem outplayed all of them in all of his playoff meetings against them, aside from 1998 against Malone following knee surgery. This is further proof that regular season MVPs don't always accurately determine who the best player in the league is. If MVPs were truly an individual award, Hakeem would be worth at least 5 MVPs, considering the 1994 MVP he won and the fact that he outplayed Barkley, Malone, and Robinson (combined 4 MVPs) in all playoff meetings aside from 1998, with less help each time, while playing against far superior competition than what Kareem faced.
Hakeem may have been the best player in 1993 as well, better even than Jordan, when he led the Rockets in 5/5 categories for both the first and second round, shutting down Shawn Kemp in 6 out of 7 games, only for his teammate Maxwell to miss the game-winning shot in Game 7, and his team still somehow lose with Hakeem carrying the team in literally every aspect. Again, subjective regular season MVPs are not an accurate barometer for comparing players individually, especially considering Kareem's team advantages over Hakeem's, in a weaker 70s era.
Hakeem has the most seasons of all-time leading a team in 4/5 categories (minimum 50 games) with 9. He did this 8 straight years from 1985/86 to 1992/93, and again in 1994/95. He didn't do it in the 1993/94 season, which would have made it 10 straight years, but made it up by becoming the only player to lead a title team in 5/5 categories for the playoffs. Kareem has never even led a team in 4/5 for a single season. More proof of how much more Hakeem had to do for his team, and why he is the vastly superior individual player.
The only other player with more than 3 seasons doing this is Kevin Garnett with 7, including the 98/99 lockout season in which only 50 games were available, with Garnett playing 47 - Marbury (18) and Brandon (21) did not play enough games. However, Garnett only led his team once out the first round in a season that he led a team in 4/5 categories (2003/04). Garnett is the only player who carried a load comparable to Hakeem's, and under the same circumstances only had 1 year of playoff success. So to criticize Hakeem for his playoff shortcomings when no one else showed a capability of accomplishing anything remotely close to Hakeem under similar circumstances is a farce of an argument.
Kareem was not even the number 1 option in most of his titles. He only had 2 Finals MVPs, proving that he needed an insanely stacked team to have success. Magic Johnson won his first title in 1980 when Kareem wasn't even playing in the championship deciding-game. The Lakers won in 1980 with Kareem sitting at home during Game 6. On the other hand, the Lakers in the 80s never won a Finals game when Magic didn't play, during Games 3 and 4 of the 1989 Finals. Kareem is the only supposed GOAT candidate to miss the playoffs twice in his prime, and wasn't even the best player on half his championships. That alone excludes him from being in Jordan or Hakeem's league.
The fact that Kareem only had 2 Finals MVPs in 20 years shows how dependent he was on his teammates to win for him, not for him to lead the team to the win Even in Kareem's 1985 Finals MVP, you can make a very strong case that Magic deserved it, as he averaged 18-7-14 on 49% with 2 spg. Magic' 14 apg is an NBA Finals record. In fact, Magic is the only player in history to average 12+ apg in even one NBA Finals, and he did it 6 times. More proof of how stacked Kareem's help was compared to Hakeem's and Jordan's. Only once was Kareem the clear and undisputed best player on his championship teams in 1971.
In 1980, Magic clinched the title without him, after Kareem spent 5 prime years missing the playoffs twice and having a 2-3 playoff series record without Oscar/Magic. In 1980, 1982, 1987, and 1988 Kareem didn't win Finals MVP. In 1985 Kareem won Finals MVP, but Magic averaged an NBA Finals record 14 apg and created offense for everyone on the Lakers as he always did. Magic also averaged 15.2 apg in the 1985 Playoffs, something nobody else has ever done in the playoffs. Stockton averaged 15.0 apg in the 1990 Playoffs but lost in 5 games in the first round. Seeing as a prime Kareem struggled so bad without Oscar/Magic, I doubt he would have come close to winning the 1985 ring at age 38 without Magic holding everything together on the team.
And Kareem "earned" his 6th ring by averaging 13-4-1 on 41% in the 1988 Finals. Compare this with the incredible outputs Hakeem and Jordan had in their playoff shortcomings, and it's clear Kareem was blessed with much more help. Whereas Jordan and Hakeem were the clear and undisputed best player in each of their championships.
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| Magic Johnson put on one of the greatest Finals performances of all time in Game 6 of 1980 to win the championship for the Lakers. Where was Kareem? Sitting at home. |
The Bulls also never won a Finals game without Jordan, like Magic did without Kareem. But Jordan did win when Pippen was forced out of the majority of Game 6 of the 1998 Finals due to back injury, like Magic won without Kareem in 1980 Finals Game 6. Pippen further injured his already injured back on the first play of Game 6, and even when he returned he was ineffective. But MJ dropped 45 with the game winning steal and shot - getting it done on both ends of the floor. Jordan never needed the 2 greatest PG in NBA history to carry him
Kareem had one of the greatest supporting casts of all time, maybe the most stacked amount of help that a single player has had throughout his career. Kareem had the 2 best PGs of all time (Oscar/Magic), Finals MVP James Worthy (HOF), DPOY Michael Cooper (should be HOF), Bob Mcadoo (MVP and HOF), Jamal Wilkes (HOF), Norm Nixon and HOF coach Pat Riley. Jordan had Pippen and 34-36 yr old Rodman (not for the 1st 3 rings, though) with good role players and Phil Jackson at coach, but that's still nowhere near the stacked lineup that Kareem had.
Kareem doesnt have 10 scoring titles, He only has 2, and he never had a scoring title without Oscar to feed him the ball. His 2 scoring titles also came in the weak 70s which was much, much easier to score in than Jordan's era. Kareem never won a scoring title after that, even during his prime. Proof of how much easier it was to score back then.
Kareem had one of the greatest supporting casts of all time, maybe the most stacked amount of help that a single player has had throughout his career. Kareem had the 2 best PGs of all time (Oscar/Magic), Finals MVP James Worthy (HOF), DPOY Michael Cooper (should be HOF), Bob Mcadoo (MVP and HOF), Jamal Wilkes (HOF), Norm Nixon and HOF coach Pat Riley. Jordan had Pippen and 34-36 yr old Rodman (not for the 1st 3 rings, though) with good role players and Phil Jackson at coach, but that's still nowhere near the stacked lineup that Kareem had.
Kareem doesnt have 10 scoring titles, He only has 2, and he never had a scoring title without Oscar to feed him the ball. His 2 scoring titles also came in the weak 70s which was much, much easier to score in than Jordan's era. Kareem never won a scoring title after that, even during his prime. Proof of how much easier it was to score back then.
Jordan has 3 times as many Finals MVPs as Kareem. Unlike Kareem, MJ gets it done in the playoffs when it matters
Kareem only has 2 game-winning plays in 10 NBA Finals appearances
1. The game winner in Game 6 of the 1974 Finals (and the Bucks lost the series in Game 7)
2. The game-winning free throws in 1988 Finals Game 6 vs Pistons (and James Worthy was the MVP of that series, not Kareem - though it should have gone to Magic)
MJ has 6 game-winning/tying plays in 6 NBA Finals appearances
1. 1991 Finals Game 3 game-tyer
2. 1997 Finals Game 1 game-winner over Russell
3. 1997 Finals Game 5 go-ahead 3-pointer
4. 1997 Finals Game 6 series-winning assist to Kerr
5. 1998 Finals Game 1 tying-assist to Longley to send the Game to OT.
6. 1998 Finals Game 6 series winning steal and shot
Kareem is not even as good as Hakeem
Hakeem has 3 game-winning plays in 3 NBA Finals appearances, and it took Kareem 10 appearances (with a much, MUCH, better supporting cast) to match that
1. Forcing Parish to miss the game winner in Game 3 of the 1986 Finals
2. Series-saving block on Starks in Game 6 (unlike Kareem, he plays at the best level on both ends of the floor)
3. Game-winning tip-in Game 1 of 1995 Finals.
1. Forcing Parish to miss the game winner in Game 3 of the 1986 Finals
2. Series-saving block on Starks in Game 6 (unlike Kareem, he plays at the best level on both ends of the floor)
3. Game-winning tip-in Game 1 of 1995 Finals.
Call me when Kareem plays lockdown defense (in the playoffs - where it actually matters, unlike the regular season) as good as Hakeem did to
- Kemp in the 1993 playoffs (5 blocks on Kemp alone in Game 4)
- Barkley in the 1994 and 1995 playoffs
- Malone in the 1994, 1995, 1997, and 1998 playoffs
- Ewing in the 1994 Finals
- MVP Robinson in the 1995 playoffs
- To those who will bring up Shaq in the 1995 Finals, remember that although Shaq played well, he still had twice as many turnovers as Hakeem while also getting outscored in every single game.
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| Moses Malone outplayed Kareem in both of their playoff series. No big man outplayed Hakeem in all of their playoff series, other than McHale in the 1986 Finals. McHale was a prime Hall of Famer on arguably the greatest team of all-time while Hakeem was only in his second season. Hakeem still led his team to 2 wins against the 1986 Celtics, something Kareem could never do to Moses. |
Oh wait, Willis Reed dropped 28 ppg on rookie Kareem's face in the 1970 playoffs after only averaging 22 ppg in the regular season. Even a 2nd year Hakeem held Kareem to 50% shooting with Sampson after he averaged 56% in the 1986 regular season
Oh wait, Dave Cowens dropped 28-14 on 52% to send Kareem home in Game 7 of the 1974 Finals, out rebounding and outscoring him, whereas Hakeem shut down Ewing to 41% FG and 5 turnovers in Game 7 of 1994, outscoring, outblocking, and outassisting him while matching him in rebounds.
Oh wait, Moses Malone out rebounded and outscored Kareem in both the 1981 Playoffs and 1983 Finals. Moses dropped 31 ppg on Kareem's face in the 1981 first round after only averaging 28 ppg in the regular season.
The worst part? Moses Malone had a 40-42 Rockets team, with 0 all stars while Kareem's Lakers were the defending champions with multiple Hall of Famers and the greatest PG of all -time
Oh wait, Moses won Finals MVP over Kareem in the 1983 Finals, and dropped 26 ppg on Kareem after only averaging 24.5 ppg in the regular season.
Hakeem (+ Sampson) even held Kareem to 50% shooting in 1986 WCF after Kareem shot 56% in the regular season - when Hakeem was only in his 2nd year. Kareem meanwhile was coming off of a Finals MVP season. Hakeem proved in the 1986 WCF that Kareem did not deserve the all-NBA first team in 1986, and that those types of regular season awards and accomplishments don't fully determine greatness.
Oh wait, Dave Cowens dropped 28-14 on 52% to send Kareem home in Game 7 of the 1974 Finals, out rebounding and outscoring him, whereas Hakeem shut down Ewing to 41% FG and 5 turnovers in Game 7 of 1994, outscoring, outblocking, and outassisting him while matching him in rebounds.
Oh wait, Moses Malone out rebounded and outscored Kareem in both the 1981 Playoffs and 1983 Finals. Moses dropped 31 ppg on Kareem's face in the 1981 first round after only averaging 28 ppg in the regular season.
The worst part? Moses Malone had a 40-42 Rockets team, with 0 all stars while Kareem's Lakers were the defending champions with multiple Hall of Famers and the greatest PG of all -time
Oh wait, Moses won Finals MVP over Kareem in the 1983 Finals, and dropped 26 ppg on Kareem after only averaging 24.5 ppg in the regular season.
Hakeem (+ Sampson) even held Kareem to 50% shooting in 1986 WCF after Kareem shot 56% in the regular season - when Hakeem was only in his 2nd year. Kareem meanwhile was coming off of a Finals MVP season. Hakeem proved in the 1986 WCF that Kareem did not deserve the all-NBA first team in 1986, and that those types of regular season awards and accomplishments don't fully determine greatness.
Rick Barry had Hall of Famer Jamaal Wilkes in 1975, though Wilkes was a rookie so maybe Barry could qualify. Even then, Barry only played 3 playoff rounds in 1975, so Hakeem is the only one to do it for 4 playoff rounds while beating a Hall of Famer in every round. Bill Walton also came close, but he had All-star Maurice Lucas in 1977. The fact that it took Hakeem a long time to do that when no one else in history could do that even once speaks volumes, and doesn't take away from his struggles post-Sampson and pre-1994. If no one else could do it even once, how can Hakeem be discredited for being the only one to do it, regardless of how long it took?
Secondly, Sampson never made the playoffs without Hakeem, except once in 1989 while playing 18 minutes a game for the Warriors. The Warriors made it to the second round by sweeping Stockton/Malone's Jazz, but Sampson did not play a single minute in the entire first round. It's quite clear Hakeem was carrying Sampson, not the other way around.
The 1986 Rockets were only a 0.500 team when Hakeem didn't play (7-7), and Hakeem carried them to the Finals with their starting guard John Lucas kicked off the team for cocaine. With Sampson ejected in Game 5 and with his starting guard out for the playoffs, Hakeem still carried an average team to 6 games against a top 3 team of all-time in the 1986 Celtics. And Hakeem did eventually not only make the Finals without Sampson, but won the title while shutting down Ewing. Kareem did no such thing without the 2 greatest PG of all time, let alone with 0 all stars and 0 Hall of Famers like Hakeem.
The 1991 Rockets are the only team from 1984 to 1998 that had a winning record without Hakeem, they went 16-10 without him for 26 games. However, they benefited from an easy schedule in those 16 wins. Here are their 16 wins.
- Nov 13, 1990 - 29-53 Wolves
- Jan 5, 1991 - 41-41 Pacers
- Jan 10, 1991 - 20-62 Nuggets
- Jan 19, 1991 - 31-51 Clippers
- Jan 24, 1991 - 29-53 Wolves
- Jan 26, 1991 - 33-49 Cavs
- Jan 29, 1991 - 55-27 Spurs
- Feb 2, 1991 - 55-27 Spurs
- Feb 3, 1991 - 44-38 Warriors
- Feb 6, 1991 - 48-34 Bucks
- Feb 7, 1991 - 33-49 Cavs
- Feb 14, 1991 - 30-52 Bullets
- Feb 16, 1991 - 55-27 Suns
- Feb 21, 1991 - 48-34 Bucks
- Feb 24, 1991 - 29-53 Wolves
- Feb 26, 1991 - 20-62 Nuggets
Only 6 of their wins were against winning teams, and 9 of their wins, over half, came against sub-35 win teams. They were only 6-7 against winning teams in that stretch (0.462 win%), so their record was protected and inflated from a an easy stretch in the schedule. Their 7 losses to winning teams were the Blazers (Jan 8), Suns (Jan 11), Lakers (Jan 13), Pistons (Jan 17), Warriors (Jan 22), Jazz (Feb 12), and Lakers again (Feb 19). They were by no means a respectable team without Hakeem, they simply had a fortunate schedule in the stretch he was out.
Thanks to Oscar's facilitation and running the offense, Dandridge was able to take over as the Bucks leading scorer, yes - outscoring Kareem, after Kareem's best regular season scoring season, 25 to 23 ppg, and Kareem's disappearing was made up for by Oscar's presence. I doubt Dandridge would have been able to take over as the leading scorer in that series and save the Bucks' season were it not for Oscar's running the offense.
Hakeem and Jordan had no such luxury of the 2nd greatest PG of all-time to run their offense for them, and Jordan in the playoffs was forced to win several times with Pippen ejected, fouled out, disappearing, or injured whereas Kareem never did this in Oscar or Magic's case. The reverse actually happened, with Magic winning without MVP Kareem in Game 6 of the 1980 Finals.
The very next round in the 1972 WCF, Oscar's performance was diminished due to injury, and he only put up 9 ppg. Without a healthy Oscar to feed him the ball, (remember, Kareem never won a scoring title without Oscar) Kareem was contained to 34 ppg on 46% shooting by a 35 year old Wilt Chamberlain after averaging 35 ppg on 57% in the regular season, and the defending champ Bucks were sent home with Oscar unable to save Kareem due to injury. Jordan, however, led his team to 62 wins with Pippen missing half the 97/98 season and won Game 6 of the 98 Finals with Pippen injured and missing most of the game.
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| Oscar had to save Kareem in the playoffs after Thurmond locked him down in 1972, but it was too much to ask for after Thurmond did it once again in 1973. |
In the 1972/73 season, the Lakers had the best record in the West (2nd best in league behind Celtics). Yet in the first round, Kareem got locked down by Thurmond to 23 ppg on 43% shooting after 30 ppg on 55% in the regular season. This time, Oscar couldn't carry Kareem's disappearing self, despite dropping 21 ppg as a 34 year old man. The Warriors had the worst record in the West playoffs, yet upset the West's best record Bucks because of Kareem's disappearing and domination at Thurmond's hands
1974 was the last season Kareem played with Oscar, and by no coincidence they made the Finals, though they lost in Game 7, with Kareem allowing Dave Cowens to drop 28-14 on 52% to send him home, while out rebounding and outscoring him. After Oscar left, Kareem went from Game 7 of the 1974 Finals to missing the playoffs two straight years in his prime, and never made the Finals again until Magic came and won Finals MVP in his rookie season with Kareem missing Game 6. Kareem's career with Oscar began with winning the 1971 title in their first season together in an easy sweep, his last season with Oscar ended with Game 7 of the 1974 Finals, and as soon as Oscar left, Kareem missed the playoffs back to back - in his prime, no less.
Oscar didn't make the Finals without Kareem, but he led his team to 7 games against the 1963 Celtics in the EDF, whereas Sampson never led any team to the playoffs as the number 1 option. Hakeem and Jordan had no such help, and Pippen never made the Conference Finals until he joined the 2000 Blazers team that made the Conference Finals without Pippen in 1999.
Jordan never got out the first round without Pippen, because he was a rookie, missed his entire 2nd season, and only played 2 full seasons before Pippen got there. In only his first 2 full seasons, Jordan still made the playoffs without Pippen whereas Kareem missed the playoffs twice - in his prime, no less, without Oscar or Magic. And on top of that, Jordan was in position to get the formerly 19-win Wizards a top playoff seed before his injury happened in 2002. This would have been the first time in history that a sub-20 win team obtained a winning record after only one season. You can read more about this in Section 20.
Magic also made the Finals without Kareem in 1991, and won Game 6 of the 1980 Finals without Kareem. The Lakers couldn't make the Finals without Magic, however, even in Kareem's prime in the post-Oscar and pre-Magic era. When Magic was injured in the 1989 Finals, the Lakers couldn't pick up the slack and got swept. To be fair, Kareem was an old man in 1989, but nonetheless there are several examples above which prove Kareem's inability to succeed without the 2 greatest PG of all time. Even with Magic's injury, it shows the Lakers as a whole were unable to survive without Magic, unlike the Lakers without Kareem in Game 6 of 1980.
When Kareem couldn't win with an injured or struggling Oscar in 1972, MJ won with an injured Pippen missing most of Game 6 of the 1998 Finals due to his back problems, as well as even during poor performances by Pippen in Game 5 (in which Rodman fouled out in only 23 minutes) and 6 of the 1997 Finals, which you can read more about in Section 13.
- At age 38 in the 2001/02 season, Jordan averaged 25-6-5 on 42% with 1.5 spg and 0.5 bpg, while only shooting 17% from 3pt range through 46 games right before the all star break.
- This was before Jordan injured his knee in a collision with Etan Thomas during a game against the Kings (Feb 7, 2002), the last Wizards game before the All-star break
- The Wizards were 26-20 with Jordan by that point (Jordan missed one game against the Spurs, which the Wizards lost, bringing their record to 26-21 before the All-star break) and in the playoff hunt.
- After Jordan's injury, they went 1-9 in the next 10 games and eventually fell out of the playoff race
- Jordan started in all 46 of those games, but only started in 7 more games for the rest of the season post All-star break, with his injury badly bringing down his numbers and team record
- Among the Wizards games without Jordan or with a post-injury Jordan (post-All Star break), they were 11-25 (0.300 win%).
- The Wizards 26-20 (0.565 win%) record with a healthy Jordan would have been good enough for 4th place in the Eastern Conference had they maintained that pace
- Part of that was due to bum competition in the post-Jordan era, but nonetheless a healthy 38-year old Jordan would have had homecourt without Pippen and most likely a 2nd-round appearance, possibly a Finals appearance.
In his first season without Oscar, Kareem missed the 1975 Playoffs in his prime, as mentioned above. In 1976, Kareem won the regular season MVP but, had a losing record and couldn't even make the playoffs, even with Hall of Famer Gail Goodrich. Further proof that MVP-counting is an invalid method of comparing players.
In 1976/77, Kareem's Lakers had the best regular season record. Yet, they got swept in the 1977 WCF when it mattered by Bill Walton's Blazers, another center that Kareem lost to as he usually did when playing against other great centers.
In 1977/78 Kareem had Hall of Famers Adrian Dantley and Jamaal Wilkes join the Lakers along with Norm Nixon. With all that help, he only led the Lakers to a 5 seed and first round exit against the Sonics whose best players were Jack Sikma, Gus Williams, and Dennis Johnson. The same Dennis Johnson that got lit up in 1986 by a 2nd year Jordan coming off of a nearly entirely missed season
The next year, with the same Hall of Fame supporting cast, Kareem ended up losing to the same Sonics team in the 1979 Playoffs. Then Magic came to save Kareem in 1980, as Kareem won regular season MVP but Magic won Finals MVP without Kareem in Game 6 to win the title.
In Kareem's 5 prime seasons from 1975 to 1979, he missed the playoffs twice in his prime without Oscar/Magic, the 2 best PGs of all-time, and never won more than 1 round in any of those years. Kareem's scoring decreased every year from 1974/75 to 1978/79 when Oscar and Magic were not his teammates.
In 1975, Kareem missed the playoffs upon Oscar's retirement despite having a very good 2nd option in Bob Dandridge averaging 20-7-3 on 47% with 1.5 SPG. Kareem did miss games, but this was due to a self-inflicted injury. Kareem punched the stanchion out of frustration during a preseason game, putting him out of commission for the early part of the season. Any struggles the Bucks had in Kareem's absence is his own fault, since his own inability to keep his emotions in check is what put the Bucks at a disadvantage in the first place.
In 1976, Kareem again missed the playoffs while having another good 2nd option in Gail Goodrich with 20-3-6 on 44%.
Even with Hall of Famers Dantley and Wilkes in 1978 and 1979, Kareem was 1-2 in playoff series those 2 years. In the 1979 Playoffs, Kareem had stacked help
- Jamaal Wilkes - 18-9-2-2 on 48%
- Adrian Dantley - 18-4-1 on 56%
- Norm Nixon - 15-4-12 on 47%
and still failed to reach the WCF.
As soon as Magic came, Kareem averaged his career high FG%, increased his scoring after his scoring had decreased in each of the previous 4 seasons, and the Lakers won the title without Kareem in Game 6. So even Kareem's 1980 MVP comes with a huge asterisk next to it. We'll get back to Kareem's over-dependence on the 2 best PGs of all-time
Kareem only beat 3 50+ win teams in one playoff run, in 1980 when Magic clinched the title and Finals MVP without him, and he never beat 2 60+ win teams in a playoff run. Kareem beat 0 50+ win teams in the 1971 title run, including a barely 0.500 42-40 Bullets team in the Finals. Kareem also had the luxury of beating 0 50+ win teams to make the 1971, 1982, 1984, and 1987 Finals. Jordan beat 3 50+ win teams in each of the 1992, 1993, 1997, and 1998 title runs, as well as 2 60-win teams in each of the 1993, 1996, and 1997 title runs. Hakeem also beat 3 50+ win teams in the 1994 title run and 4 57+ win teams in the 1995 title run. Had KJ and Barkley not missed a combined 59 games on the 59-23 Suns, the 1995 Rockets would have been the only team to beat 3 60+ win teams in a playoff run. Kareem also had the luxury of playing a sub-50 win team in the 1971 ECF and 1982, 1984, and 1987 Conference Finals. Jordan, Hakeem, and more have never had this luxury of playing a sub-50 team in the Conference Finals like Kareem did, while Kareem was playing on way more stacked teams, and never had the luxury of playing 0 50-win teams to make the Finals like Kareem did an incredible 4 times.
Now back to Hakeem.
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| Without Oscar to save him as he did against Wilt in 1971 and Thurmond in 1972, Kareem was at Walton and Moses' mercy |
In 1976/77, Kareem's Lakers had the best regular season record. Yet, they got swept in the 1977 WCF when it mattered by Bill Walton's Blazers, another center that Kareem lost to as he usually did when playing against other great centers.
In 1977/78 Kareem had Hall of Famers Adrian Dantley and Jamaal Wilkes join the Lakers along with Norm Nixon. With all that help, he only led the Lakers to a 5 seed and first round exit against the Sonics whose best players were Jack Sikma, Gus Williams, and Dennis Johnson. The same Dennis Johnson that got lit up in 1986 by a 2nd year Jordan coming off of a nearly entirely missed season
The next year, with the same Hall of Fame supporting cast, Kareem ended up losing to the same Sonics team in the 1979 Playoffs. Then Magic came to save Kareem in 1980, as Kareem won regular season MVP but Magic won Finals MVP without Kareem in Game 6 to win the title.
In Kareem's 5 prime seasons from 1975 to 1979, he missed the playoffs twice in his prime without Oscar/Magic, the 2 best PGs of all-time, and never won more than 1 round in any of those years. Kareem's scoring decreased every year from 1974/75 to 1978/79 when Oscar and Magic were not his teammates.
In 1975, Kareem missed the playoffs upon Oscar's retirement despite having a very good 2nd option in Bob Dandridge averaging 20-7-3 on 47% with 1.5 SPG. Kareem did miss games, but this was due to a self-inflicted injury. Kareem punched the stanchion out of frustration during a preseason game, putting him out of commission for the early part of the season. Any struggles the Bucks had in Kareem's absence is his own fault, since his own inability to keep his emotions in check is what put the Bucks at a disadvantage in the first place.
In 1976, Kareem again missed the playoffs while having another good 2nd option in Gail Goodrich with 20-3-6 on 44%.
Even with Hall of Famers Dantley and Wilkes in 1978 and 1979, Kareem was 1-2 in playoff series those 2 years. In the 1979 Playoffs, Kareem had stacked help
- Jamaal Wilkes - 18-9-2-2 on 48%
- Adrian Dantley - 18-4-1 on 56%
- Norm Nixon - 15-4-12 on 47%
and still failed to reach the WCF.
As soon as Magic came, Kareem averaged his career high FG%, increased his scoring after his scoring had decreased in each of the previous 4 seasons, and the Lakers won the title without Kareem in Game 6. So even Kareem's 1980 MVP comes with a huge asterisk next to it. We'll get back to Kareem's over-dependence on the 2 best PGs of all-time
Kareem only beat 3 50+ win teams in one playoff run, in 1980 when Magic clinched the title and Finals MVP without him, and he never beat 2 60+ win teams in a playoff run. Kareem beat 0 50+ win teams in the 1971 title run, including a barely 0.500 42-40 Bullets team in the Finals. Kareem also had the luxury of beating 0 50+ win teams to make the 1971, 1982, 1984, and 1987 Finals. Jordan beat 3 50+ win teams in each of the 1992, 1993, 1997, and 1998 title runs, as well as 2 60-win teams in each of the 1993, 1996, and 1997 title runs. Hakeem also beat 3 50+ win teams in the 1994 title run and 4 57+ win teams in the 1995 title run. Had KJ and Barkley not missed a combined 59 games on the 59-23 Suns, the 1995 Rockets would have been the only team to beat 3 60+ win teams in a playoff run. Kareem also had the luxury of playing a sub-50 win team in the 1971 ECF and 1982, 1984, and 1987 Conference Finals. Jordan, Hakeem, and more have never had this luxury of playing a sub-50 team in the Conference Finals like Kareem did, while Kareem was playing on way more stacked teams, and never had the luxury of playing 0 50-win teams to make the Finals like Kareem did an incredible 4 times.
Now back to Hakeem.
Hakeem beat a Hall of Famer in every single playoff round, Drexler, Stockton/Malone, Barkley/KJ (who should be in the Hall of Fame), and Ewing, while having 0 Hall of Famers or even All-Stars on his side. Even his coach, Tomjanovich, is not a Hall of Fame coach and Hakeem had to go lead his 0 Hall of Fame and 0 All-star team against teams coached by Jerry Sloan and Pat Riley. Tomjanovich never coached a non-Hakeem team to the playoffs.
Kareem has never led his team in more than 3/5 categories during any of his 10 runs to the Finals, with a much better supporting cast to lead him to the Finals every year. Steals were not recorded in 1971 when he won his first championship - and only needed 2 playoff rounds to make the Finals. However, Kareem never led any of his teams in steals per game during any of his other 9 playoff runs to the Finals, so I doubt he did it in 1971. Clearly Hakeem had to carry a much higher load, offensively and defensively, than Kareem ever did. Kareem was outperformed by Moses Malone in both playoff meetings, and never contained him defensively.
To those saying that Hakeem would obviously have a better chance of leading his 1994 team in all 5 categories with 0 Hall of Famers/All-stars compared to Kareem's stacked lineups, just remember that Kareem never made the Finals without the 2 best PG of all time, and missed the playoffs twice in his prime without them. Even if Kareem was put in a position where he would have to lead a team with non-Hall of Famers/All-stars in all 5 categories, absolutely nothing suggests that his team would benefit from Kareem leading them in those categories, unlike Hakeem when he got them a championship in 1994.
As further proof of how much of a load Hakeem had to carry, look at the 1994 Finals. Hakeem shut down Ewing to 36% shooting and almost a 2:1 turnover/assist ratio, and Game 5 was the only good game for Ewing out of 7 in the entire series. With Hakeem shutting down the other team's best player so badly, you would expect an easy sweep or 5 game series.
Instead, the Knicks defense shut down the Rockets to under 95 points in every game, and all 7 games were decided by single digits. Part of the explanation is that the Knicks were just that good, and far from a 1-dimensional team that centered on Ewing. The other part is the lack of production from Hakeem's teammates. These are the numbers for Hakeem's 3 best scorers in the series, who were the only double digit scoring teammates
- Vernon Maxwell - 13 ppg on 37%
- Sam Cassell - 10 ppg on 32%
- Robert Horry - 10 ppg on 42%
Hakeem locked down, or at least contained every great big man of his era in a playoff series besides McHale, when Hakeem was a 2nd year player going against the greatest front court and Celtics team of all time in their prime. Shaq did good, but he was outscored in every game and had twice as many turnovers as Hakeem.
Hakeem lead his team in 4/5 categories every season from his 2nd season (85/86) to 9th season (92/93). As well as his 11th season (94/95). The only category he didn't lead was assists. From the beginning, Hakeem had a way bigger load to carry than Kareem, who was carried by Oscar and Magic. Hakeem also led his team in 4/5 categories for the 1986, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991 Playoffs (They missed the playoffs in 1992 because they went 2-10 in the games Hakeem missed, they were 40-30 when he played)
And led them in all 5 categories for the 1993 and 1994 Playoffs, shutting down Shawn Kemp in 6/7 games during the 1993 WCSF vs the Sonics (and still losing despite all that carrying) and Patrick Ewing in 6/7 games in 1994 to win the championship, and be the only player in history to do that with 0 Hall of Fame teammates/coach or All-stars.
Kareem never had an MVP and DPOY in the same season. MJ and Hakeem are the only players in history to win MVP and DPOY in the same season. MJ and Hakeem (+ Pippen) are the only players in history with 200+ steals and 100+ blocks in the same season. Not Kareem. Hakeem is also the only player in history with 200+ steals and 200+ blocks in the same season. Jordan is also the only player in NBA history with 2 seasons of 200+ steals and 100+ blocks.
Hakeem and Jordan also played much better competition. Kareem only beat one 60+ win team in his entire career, the 1985 Celtics. And this was while playing with the best PG of all-time, who averaged 14 apg in those 1985 NBA Finals (nobody besides Magic has even cracked 12+ apg in an NBA Finals). Jordan's Bulls beat 7 60-win teams in his 6 title seasons, the most by any dynasty in one decade. Hakeem's Rockets beat two 60+ win teams in the 1995 title run alone, the Jazz and Spurs, with Rodman missing 33 games in the regular season. The 1995 Suns were also 59-23 with Barkley and KJ missing a combined 49 games, or else that would easily have been a third 60-win team for Hakeem to beat in the 1995 title run. Hakeem also beat the 62-20 1986 Lakers with a mediocre supporting cast, giving him 3 series wins over 60+ win teams in the playoffs.
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| Defensively, Jordan and Hakeem are far ahead of Kareem. Kareem never shut down a Hall of Famer in a playoff series like Jordan did to Isiah or Drexler, or Hakeem did to Ewing, Robinson, and more. |
Hakeem also outperformed Kareem head to head in the 1986 WCF - Kareem only beat him in assists, and Kareem also had almost three times as many turnovers in that series (19) to Hakeem (7), as Hakeem led the Rockets in 4/5 categories. And Hakeem, with Sampson, also decreased Kareem's FG% from 56 in the regular season to 50% in the playoffs, and forced Kareem to almost 4 turnovers a game. And Hakeem's Rockets killed Kareem's Lakers 4-1.
The worst part? Hakeem was only in his 2nd year and Kareem was the reigning Finals MVP. AND Kareem had the way better supporting cast of Coach Pat Riley, Magic, Worthy, DPOY Cooper, and Byron Scott. Sure, Kareem was older, but he had way more experience and was coming off a Finals MVP season so his age is no excuse for getting outplayed by an inexperienced sophomore. Hakeem proved in the 1986 WCF that Kareem did not deserve the all-NBA first team in 1986 over Hakeem.
In spite of playing 20 SEASONS, and one of the most stacked lineups in history
- Only 2 Finals MVPs (out of 6 rings) - 4 less than Jordan
- zero Def Player of the Year - compared to Hakeem (x2) and MJ (x1)
- even if the award existed in earlier years, Kareem was not as good defensively as the likes of old Wilt, Reed, and Thurmond. And as we saw, great bigs would light him up often.
- Only 2 scoring titles (ZERO without Oscar feeding him) compared to Jordan's 10
- In 6 yrs without Oscar/Magic (2 best PG ever) - missed playoffs twice in his prime and never made the Finals
Jordan needed Scottie Pippen. Hakeem took a team of zero all-stars in 1994 to the title, and a 6 seed team with a past-prime Clyde Drexler to the title in 1995. Even in Drexler's case, he only played well because of Hakeem's presence. Drexler shot 42.8% with the 1995 Blazers, but 50.6% playing with Hakeem's 1995 Rockets. The next year, after winning back to back titles, the 96 Rockets were only 1-9 (0.100 win%) in the 10 games Hakeem missed.
Kareem on the other hand, needed the 2 greatest point guards in NBA history, and missed the playoffs TWICE in his PRIME without them and NEVER won more than 1 playoff series in any of his 6 seasons without them. And he also never won a scoring title without Oscar to feed him the ball.
Kareem - has NEVER gone against a defensive front court as good as Robinson/Rodman in 1995 or Ewing/Oakley/Mason in 1994, let alone beat them.
- Celtics had a better overall frontcourt, but not defensively
- Nate Thurmond - a poor man's Dennis Rodman
Kareem on the other hand, needed the 2 greatest point guards in NBA history, and missed the playoffs TWICE in his PRIME without them and NEVER won more than 1 playoff series in any of his 6 seasons without them. And he also never won a scoring title without Oscar to feed him the ball.
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| Kareem was much more dependent on his teammates to bring him success than Hakeem and Jordan. That's why Kareem missed the playoffs twice, in his prime, without Oscar or Magic. And that's also why he has zero scoring titles without Oscar feeding him the ball. |
Kareem - has NEVER gone against a defensive front court as good as Robinson/Rodman in 1995 or Ewing/Oakley/Mason in 1994, let alone beat them.
- Celtics had a better overall frontcourt, but not defensively
- Nate Thurmond - a poor man's Dennis Rodman
This is what happened to Kareem when he played centers in the playoffs that were not past their prime like Wilt Chamberlain. And even then, Kareem only beat Wilt in the 1971 WCF when Jerry West was injured and did not play. When West returned, Kareem lost in the 1972 WCF against Wilt.
Nate Thurmond was a great defensive center, but he had a shooting percentage worse than Allen Iverson. He was mostly a defensive specialist. A Hall of Famer, yes, but still a horribly inefficient offensive player.
Kareem - never beat any big man head to head in the playoffs as good as Ewing, Barkley, Robinson, Shaq, Malone (who Kareem's Lakers beat in 1988 only because Magic and Worthy did all the work). Old Wilt Chamberlain at the end of his career with no Jerry West is not on that level.
This is what happened to Kareem without the 2 best point guards in NBA history
- At age 27 in his prime, his team had the same record that Jordan did in his rookie season
- At age 28 in his prime, his team had the same record that Jordan did in his 3rd season - coming off of a year where he missed almost the whole season with a broken foot
Kareem never won more than 1 playoff series in any year without Oscar/Magic. He did make it to the Conference Finals a couple times, but that was in an era where winning only one playoff round would be enough to reach the Conference Finals. He also missed the playoffs twice in his prime without Oscar or Magic.
In his first season with Oscar and Magic, his team won the title both times. In his last season with Oscar and Magic, they made the Finals both times. In his 5 prime seasons with no Oscar or Magic, he missed the playoffs twice and failed to win 2 rounds in a single season.
This proves that Kareem is overly dependent on the two greatest PGs in NBA history. True, MJ never won without Pippen. But the difference is MJ was always the number 1 option when he did win with Pippen, and he never had the 2 best PG in NBA history to bail them out. Pippen and old Rodman are no where near as good as Kareem's unfairly stacked supporting casts.
And Jordan never missed the playoffs twice without those guys, unlike Kareem without Oscar/Magic - in his PRIME. Even Hakeem didnt miss the playoffs for the second time until injuries and old age finished him, the first time he missed it, the Rockets went 2-10 without Hakeem to miss the playoffs.
Kareem
- The Lakers won their 1980 championship with Kareem sitting at home in the clinching Game 6. Something you can't say about Hakeem or MJ's teams
- Kareem was not the number 1 option in 4 of his 6 titles where he did not win Finals MVP. Hakeem and MJ were always the number 1 option
- Kareem only averaged 13-4-1 on 41% in the 1989 Finals while Magic and Worthy carried him to his 6th title. That is not Kareem's championship. That is Magic and Worthy's championship
Nate Thurmond was a great defensive center, but he had a shooting percentage worse than Allen Iverson. He was mostly a defensive specialist. A Hall of Famer, yes, but still a horribly inefficient offensive player.
- Willis Reed - lost in 1970 EDF
- This was rookie Kareem
- Dave Cowens - lost in 1974 Finals
- Bill Walton - swept in 1977 WCF
- Moses Malone - lost in 1981 First round and 1983 Finals
- Hakeem/Sampson - lost in 1986 WCF
Kareem - never beat any big man head to head in the playoffs as good as Ewing, Barkley, Robinson, Shaq, Malone (who Kareem's Lakers beat in 1988 only because Magic and Worthy did all the work). Old Wilt Chamberlain at the end of his career with no Jerry West is not on that level.
This is what happened to Kareem without the 2 best point guards in NBA history
- At age 27 in his prime, his team had the same record that Jordan did in his rookie season
- At age 28 in his prime, his team had the same record that Jordan did in his 3rd season - coming off of a year where he missed almost the whole season with a broken foot
Kareem never won more than 1 playoff series in any year without Oscar/Magic. He did make it to the Conference Finals a couple times, but that was in an era where winning only one playoff round would be enough to reach the Conference Finals. He also missed the playoffs twice in his prime without Oscar or Magic.
In his first season with Oscar and Magic, his team won the title both times. In his last season with Oscar and Magic, they made the Finals both times. In his 5 prime seasons with no Oscar or Magic, he missed the playoffs twice and failed to win 2 rounds in a single season.
This proves that Kareem is overly dependent on the two greatest PGs in NBA history. True, MJ never won without Pippen. But the difference is MJ was always the number 1 option when he did win with Pippen, and he never had the 2 best PG in NBA history to bail them out. Pippen and old Rodman are no where near as good as Kareem's unfairly stacked supporting casts.
And Jordan never missed the playoffs twice without those guys, unlike Kareem without Oscar/Magic - in his PRIME. Even Hakeem didnt miss the playoffs for the second time until injuries and old age finished him, the first time he missed it, the Rockets went 2-10 without Hakeem to miss the playoffs.
Kareem
- The Lakers won their 1980 championship with Kareem sitting at home in the clinching Game 6. Something you can't say about Hakeem or MJ's teams
- Kareem was not the number 1 option in 4 of his 6 titles where he did not win Finals MVP. Hakeem and MJ were always the number 1 option
- Kareem only averaged 13-4-1 on 41% in the 1989 Finals while Magic and Worthy carried him to his 6th title. That is not Kareem's championship. That is Magic and Worthy's championship
A quick summary:
In spite of playing 20 SEASONS, and one of the most stacked lineups in history
- Only 2 Finals MVPs (out of 6 rings) - 4 less than Jordan
- zero Def Player of the Year - compared to Hakeem (x2) and MJ (x1)
- even if the award existed in earlier years, Kareem was not as good defensively as the likes of old Wilt, Reed, and Thurmond. And as we saw, great bigs would light him up often.
- Only 2 scoring titles (ZERO without Oscar feeding him) compared to Jordan's 10
- In 6 yrs without Oscar/Magic (2 best PG ever) - missed playoffs twice in his prime and never made the Finals
- Has less rebounding titles (1) than Hakeem (2)
- Has less 4+ block per game seasons (2) than Hakeem (3)
- Has 0 5-by-5s, whereas Hakeem is the all-time leader in 5-by-5s (6)
Hakeem also came the closest to recording the only playoff 5-by-5 in NBA history.
He was 1 steal short of achieving this in all 4 games.
Hakeem also came the closest to recording the only playoff 5-by-5 in NBA history.
He was 1 steal short of achieving this in all 4 games.
- Game 1 vs 1987 Blazers
- Game 4 vs 1987 Blazers
- Game 1 vs 1993 Clippers
- Game 5 vs 1994 Jazz
and 1 assist shy on another occasion
- Game 1 vs 1986 Nuggets
- Hakeem has a quadruple double, and is the closest anyone has come to reaching a quintuple double, twice (38-17-6-7-12 and 29-18-9-5-11)
- Kareem? Not even close. and that's even WITH the two best PGs of all time to help him out
- Hakeem led his team in all 5 categories during the 1994 playoff run to the title, and he won that championship with 0 Hall of Famers or all-stars, whereas Kareem has never led his team in more than 3/5 during any of his 10 runs to the Finals. - Hakeem had to carry a much bigger load than Kareem, obviously. In his prime he never had the luxury of playing with the 2 best PG of all time, a Hall of Fame coach, a DPOY, and countless other Hall of Fame teammates.
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| Hakeem won the NBA title with 0 Hall of Famers or all-stars. Kareem couldn't win consecutive playoff rounds without Oscar or Magic |
- Hakeem - the only player in NBA history with 200+ steals and 200+ blocks in a season.
- Jordan - the only player in NBA history with 2 seasons of 200+ steals and 100+ blocks
- Kareem? - not even close. Can't even get 120 steals in a season, and never got more than 81 steals in a season during the real 80s era.
- Kareem, never beat a team with a truly great center during a playoff series, unless they were at the end of their career.
- Nate Thurmond in 1971 and 1972 was in his prime, but he is a center with a worse FG% than Allen Iverson, and Wilt Chamberlain was at the end of his carer when Kareem beat him. Also, Kareem was not even the number 1 scorer for the Bucks when they beat Thurmond's Warriors in 1972.
- Robert Parish was very good, but he was never a center that could lead a team to great heights as the number 1 option
- Kareem is a combined 0-6 in the playoffs against Moses (x2), Hakeem, Bill Walton, Dave Cowens, and Willis Reed. He lost 3 of those series (1981, 1983, 1986) even with Magic by his side, and another with Oscar by his side (1974 NBA Finals).
- To be fair, Willis Reed beat a rookie Kareem, but Kareem lost to Hakeem and Moses (x2) even after he was coming off of championship seasons, and with the greatest PG of all time by his side.
- Hakeem swept Shaq (Shaq = twice as many turnovers as Hakeem and outscored in every game), dominated MVP David Robinson (with Rodman), dominated Ewing (with Oakley and Mason), beat Barkley and Malone twice each.
- Hakeem does have a losing record against Kemp (1-2), but that doesn't take away from the fact that Hakeem outplayed almost every big man he matched up against in the playoffs, whereas Kareem lost to every great big man he matched up against, unless they were at the tail end of their career like Wilt. Hakeem also shut down Kemp in 1993, (5 blocks alone in Game 4 were on Kemp) for 6 out of 7 games, even though the Rockets lost. Kareem did no such thing against any prime, great big man.
- Kemp never outplayed Hakeem outside of 1996, which was the year the amazingly stacked Sonics defense shut down Hakeem, along with Pippen, Stockton, and held Malone and Jordan well below their usual FG%. There probably isn't another defense in NBA history that gave that many Hall of Famers serious problems in one single postseason run
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| With no Oscar and Magic, and with 2 Hall of Famers in Dantley and Wilkes, Kareem went 0-2 against the likes of Jack Sikma's Sonics |
- had to lead his team in 4/5 categories for 8 straight seasons and 9/10 seasons
- never had the 2 best PGs in history, a HoF coach, a DPOY teammate
Hakeem carried Sampson to Finals, and the Rockets before Hakeem hadn't made the playoffs since Moses left. Sampson never made playoffs without Hakeem, since the Warriors won without Sampson the First round of the 1989 Playoffs. With Sampson struggling in 86, getting outrebounded by Bird, Hakeem still pushed arguably the greatest team to 6 games even with his starting guard got kicked off the team for cocaine
One of the knocks on Hakeem is his first round exits. However, we see that Hakeem stepped up his play in all of these losses, whereas Kareem regressed in many of his losses and was outperformed by Reed, Thurmond, Moses, and Cowens for the key moments or entirety of the series.
- 1985 1st Rd vs UTA - 21-13-1-1-3 on 48%
- 1986 Finals vs BOS - 25-12-2-2-3 on 48%
- won Game 5 with Sampson ejected and pushed arguably the GOAT team to 6 games
- 1987 WCSF vs SEA - 31-13-1-1-4 on 60%
- 1988 1st Rd vs DAL - 38-17-2-2-3 on 57%
- these are better than Shaq's 2000 Finals MVP numbers... and he somehow lost
- 1989 1st Rd vs SEA - 25-13-3-3-3 on 52%
- 1990 1st Rd vs LAL - 19-12-2-3-6 on 42%
- he fell on offense but had 3 spg and 6 bpg - crazy defense. Kareem's defense was ineffective in stopping all the bigs he went against.
- 1991 1st Rd vs LAL - 22-15-2-1-3 on 58%
- 1992 missed playoffs
- Hakeem missed 12 games and they went 2-10 without him, they were 40-30 with him
- 1991/92 season - Averaged 22-12-2-2-4 on 50%
- 1993 WCSF vs SEA - 23-13-5-2-4 on 52%
- outscored + out rebounded by, Moses, Hakeem, Cowens in Game 7
- outscored by Reed and 72 Thurmond (after best scoring season of Kareem's career)
Hakeem
- shut down prime Ewing all but one game
- and prime David Robinson in 4/6 games
Hakeem 1994 - 0 HoF teammates, 0 All-stars, no HoF coach
- led his team in all 5 categories for 1994 playoffs, and played defense
- Carried his team past 4 rounds of Hall of Famers - Drex, Barkley/KJ (soon to be), Stock/Malone and Sloan, Ewing and Riley
Hakeem carried that team to the Finals, shut down Ewing 6 of 7 games, yet his team can't crack 95 points once, need 7 games, and every game is decided by single digits, despite Hakeem doing everything he can
Hakeem's only double digits scorers in the Finals
- 13 on 37%
- 10 on 32%
- 10 on 42%
Blocks Starks to save the season in Game 6, and shuts down Ewing in Game 7, unlike Kareem who got was outscored and out rebounded by Cowens in Game 7 of 1974, and dropped 25-10-7-1-3 and led the team in 4/5 categories
Hakeem - the only one in history to win 4 playoff rounds with 0 HoF, 0 All-stars, no HoF coach
Kareem - only one in history with the luxury of playing with 2 best PG ever
1995 - Hakeem once again carries his 6 seed team with old Drexler to the title, past a Hall of Famer in every round
- Stockton/Malone
- Barkley/KJ (soon to be)
- Rodman/Robinson (3 DPOY)
- Shaq / Penny (HoF if he stayed healthy)
Hakeem shut down D-Rob, outscored Shaq every game of the Finals, drops a game winner, a sweep, and Shaq has double the turnovers as Hakeem.
- 1994 Playoffs - only player in history to win a title with 0 all stars, 0 Hall of Famers, and only player to win a title while leading his team in all 5 categories for the playoffs, shut down Ewing 6/7 games in the Finals
- Also the only player in history to win the Finals with his top 3 scorers shooting under 43% (32%, 37%, and 42%) since 1961.
- 1995 Playoffs - only player in history to lead a team to the title without home court advantage in every series
- only player in history to lead a team to the title as a 6 seed
- locked down MVP David Robinson in 1995 WCSF, put up 35-13-5-1-4 on 56% against Robinson/Rodman (3 DPOY combined between them)
Post championships
- 1996 1st Rd vs LAL - 27-9-4-3-2 on 54%
- 1996 WCSF vs SEA - 18-10-3-1-2 on 48% while getting outplayed by Shawn Kemp
- For his standards, the only poor series of his healthy career
- Though Hakeem already shut down Kemp in 1993, leading his team in all 5 categories for the entire playoffs, so that more than makes up for the only black spot on his healthy career
- 1997 1st Rd vs MIN - 18-11-4-2-3 on 63% vs young KG
- 1997 WCSF vs SEA - 22-12-3-2-2 on 58% for revenge on SEA
- 1997 WCF vs UTA - 27-9-4-2-3 on 59%, held MVP Karl Malone under 45%
Hakeem had a knee-injury in 1997/98 and missed half the season at Age 35
Hakeem never played a full season after this, besides the 50-game lockout season in which he was no longer the same player
Hakeem beat every great big of his era besides McHale
- Malone x2
- Barkley x2
- D-Rob
- Ewing
- Kareem
- Rodman
- Shaq
- Sikma x2
- Walton
- Reed
- Wilt 72 with Oscar injured
- Hakeem
- Moses x2
- Thurmond 73
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| Kareem failed against nearly every big man of his era, and always failed against a great big without Oscar or Magic. Hakeem succeeded almost every time against the great bigs of his era, and with weaker casts. |
Kareem also had the luxury of winning all his titles in the 80s without beating a great center. Parish never led his own team to the playoffs.
Give Hakeem
- Oscar and Magic
- Wilkes
- Worthy
- McAdoo
- DPOY Cooper
- Riley
- an 80s Lakers team that never had to beat a great center in 5 title runs
and it would be unimaginable what he could do
Give Kareem Hakeem's 1994 cast
- 0 HoF
- 0 All stars
- No HoF coach
- no DPOY
- a Rockets team that had to beat multiple HoF bigs in 94 and 95 to win titles
and he won't win 2nd rounds, won't lock down any great big, won't beat any great big, and will miss multiple playoffs - all of which are proven by what happened without Oscar/Magic in 6 seasons, 5 of which were prime seasons.
Hakeem
- Only one with 200-200 steals-blocks in season
- Closest to quintuple double, twice (38-17-6-7-12 + 28-19-5-9-11)
- Most 5 by 5 ever
- The only one in history to lead his team in 4/5 categories for 8 straight seasons and 9 total seasons
- Only one with 0 HoF, 0 all stars, no HoF coach to win a title
- Beat a HoF in 8 straight playoff rounds to win 2 titles
- Only one to win a title leading all 5 categories for 4 rounds, and he did it while also shutting down the other team's best player in the Finals
- Only one to take a 6 seed to the title
- The only player in history to win a title with his team scoring under 95 every game, for 7 games
- and to win with his 3 top scorers shooting under 43% in the Finals (1994), since 1961.
Hakeem has the most seasons of all-time leading a team in 4/5 categories (minimum 50 games) with 9. He did this 8 straight years from 1985/86 to 1992/93, and again in 1994/95. He didn't do it in the 1993/94 season, which would have made it 10 straight years, but made it up by becoming the only player to lead a title team in 5/5 categories for the playoffs. Kareem has never even led a team in 4/5 for a single season. More proof of how much more Hakeem had to do for his team, and why he is the vastly superior individual player.
The only other player with more than 3 seasons doing this is Kevin Garnett with 7, including the 98/99 lockout season in which only 50 games were available, with Garnett playing 47 - Marbury (18) and Brandon (21) did not play enough games. However, Garnett only led his team once out the first round in a season that he led a team in 4/5 categories (2003/04). Garnett is the only player who carried a load comparable to Hakeem's, and under the same circumstances only had 1 year of playoff success. So to criticize Hakeem for his playoff shortcomings when no one else showed a capability of accomplishing anything remotely close to Hakeem under similar circumstances is a farce of an argument. Kareem never had to carry a load like Hakeem, nor like Jordan in his 6 title runs.
That's why Kareem was only the best player on his first championship team, whereas Jordan and Hakeem were always the best on theirs, and were playing against far superior competition.
So there are 2 main points to remember
1. Jordan and Hakeem faced vastly superior competition.
Kareem beat 0 50+ win teams in his first title. He beat 0 50+ win teams to make the 1971, 1982, 1984, 1987 Finals. Only once did Kareem beat 3 50+ win teams in a playoff run, in 1980 when Magic clinched the title without him. He never beat 2 60+ win teams in a playoff run. On the other hand, every championship team from 1992 to 1998 had to beat either 3 50+ win teams, 2 60+ win teams, and sometimes both. Jordan and Hakeem had to work much harder for their rings compared to Kareem.
As was explained above, regular season MVPs are far from an accurate barometer for individual greatness, as Hakeem outplayed Malone, Barkley, and Robinson (combined 4 MVPs) in all but one playoff meeting (1998 vs Jazz following knee surgery) while having less help each time, yet only has 1 MVP to show for it. Hakeem and Jordan competed against prime Magic, Bird, each other, (all near-unanimously considered top 10 players) and great 2nd-tier competition like Isiah, Kevin Johnson, Stockton, Malone, Drexler, Barkley, Robinson, Shaq, etc. Kareem's fellow MVP winners in the 70s? Dave Cowens, Bob Mcadoo, and Bill Walton before finally a legit MVP in 1979. Kareem's MVP competition was so weak that he won the MVP with a losing record and missed playoffs in 1976.
2. Kareem had far more help
Kareem was far more dependent on Oscar and Magic than Jordan and Hakeem were on their teammates. That's why he missed the playoffs twice in his prime (whereas Jordan never had a prime season without Pippen) without Oscar. Kareem was only the best player on his first championship, whereas Jordan and Hakeem were the best on all their championships.
Only once was Kareem the clear and undisputed best player on his championship teams in 1971. In 1980, Magic clinched the title without him, after Kareem spent 5 prime years missing the playoffs twice and having a 2-3 playoff series record without Oscar/Magic. In 1980, 1982, 1987, and 1988 Kareem didn't win Finals MVP. In 1985 Kareem won Finals MVP, but Magic averaged an NBA Finals record 14 apg, and playoff record 15.2 apg, creating offense for everyone on the Lakers as he always did.
With Kareem having far more help while playing much easier competition, it's no wonder he won more often than Hakeem who carried a much larger load throughout his career, leading his team in averaging 4/5 categories for a record 9 seasons, nearly 10 straight, when the only person who came close to matching him in that regard, Garnett, only had one year of playoff success under the same circumstances. And even under easier circumstances, he still only won one championship as the clear best player, unlike Hakeem and Jordan who were the best on all their championships, while playing superior competition. Kareem is the only supposed GOAT candidate to miss the playoffs twice in his prime, and wasn't even the best player on half his championships. That alone excludes him from being in Jordan or Hakeem's league.
Part 1 - Kareem faced weak competition
Kareem's fellow MVP winners were the likes of Cowens, Walton, and McAdoo. This was incredibly easy competition for MVPs and not at all comparable to future MVP competition like Magic, Bird, Moses, Jordan, Isiah, Kevin Johnson, Hakeem, Karl Malone, Barkley, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron, Nash, Wade, Durant, Curry, and many more.
Bob McAdoo in 1975 was the only pre-1996 MVP to not make the 50 Greatest List. Since 1996, Derrick Rose is likely the only other MVP who would not make the 50 Greatest. In 1976, Kareem became the only MVP to miss the playoffs. When the best player in league can't make playoffs - tells a lot about the league's quality. Likewise, when the best player of that decade in Kareem missed the playoffs twice, something no other consensus top 10 player has done, that further confirms the weakness of the league's quality
The 1970s is the only post-infancy decade with no great dynasty
1960s - Celtics
1980s - Lakers and Celtics
1990s - Bulls
2000s - Lakers and Spurs
2010s - Warriors
There was no 60+ win team in 5 of 10 seasons in the 1970s. From 1980 to 2017 that only happened once in 38 years (2000/01). Even in 2001, the Lakers became one of only two teams (2010 Lakers) to beat 4 50+ win teams in one playoffs, so the competition was still of far superior overall quality.
Kareem did not have to face many of the best players of the 1970s for several years
The ABA diluted the NBA by removing the best competition and placing them in a separate league
Rick Barry - 1969-1972
Artis Gilmore - 1972-1976
Billy Cunningham - 1973-1974
George Gervin - 1973-1976
Julius Erving - 1972-1976
David Thompson - 1976
Sub-50 Win Finals Teams from 1960-present
1965 Lakers - 49-31 - 80 game season
1977 Blazers - 49-33
2003 Nets - 49-33 - the last sub-50 team to make the NBA Finals
1964 Warriors - 48-32 - 80 game season
1969 Celtics - 48-34
1972 Knicks - 48-34
1975 Warriors - 48-34
1978 Sonics - 47-35
1995 Rockets - 47-35
1970 Lakers - 46-36
1966 Lakers - 45-35 - 80 game season
1967 Warriors - 44-37 - 81 game season
1978 Bullets - 44-38
1999 Knicks - 44-38 - win% adjusted for 82 games (27-23)
1971 Bullets - 42-40
1976 Suns - 42-40
1981 Rockets - 40-42 - only losing Finals team since 1959
8 of the 17 sub-50 win teams to make the Finals from 1960-present came in the weak 1970s.
1-seeds that had under 50 wins, 79+ game seasons only (1961-present)
1964 Warriors - 48-32
1965 Lakers - 49-31
1966 Lakers - 45-35
1967 Warriors - 44-37
1970 Hawks - 48-34
1975 Warriors - 48-34
In 79+ game seasons (1961-present), the 1960s and 1970s are the only decades to produce conferences with no 50+ win teams.
5 worst-record Finals teams (1960-present)
1999 Knicks - 44-38 (adj. for 82)
1978 Bullets - 44-38
1971 Bullets - 42-40
1976 Suns - 42-40
1981 Rockets - 40-42
The 1978 NBA Finals is the only time since 1958 that both Finals teams had under 50 wins, and the 1958 season only lasted 72 games. Record-wise, three of the five worst Finals teams from 1960-present were in the 1970s.
In the only championship that Kareem was the best player, the 1971 Bucks had one of the weakest paths to title of all-time
41-41 Warriors
48-34 Lakers (no Jerry West)
42-40 Bullets (Gus Johnson out 2 of 4 games)
When Jerry West returned in 1972, the Lakers beat the Bucks on the way to the 1972 title.
Conclusion - Kareem played in weakest 1960s-present decade for almost all his prime. This made it significantly easier for him statistically and accolade-wise compared to future players.
In the 1980s, Kareem continued to benefit from easy competition.
Finals teams who faced 0 50+ win teams in pre-Finals rounds
Kareem's Bucks/Lakers 4 times (1971, 1982, 1984, 1987)
Since then, only happened 3 times (1989 Pistons, 2002 Nets, 2013 Heat)
The 1984 and 1987 Lakers are the last teams before 2007 Cavs to face two 0.500 or worse teams to make the Finals.
Part 2 - Kareem heavily depended on Magic / Oscar
Kareem = 2 scoring titles with Oscar
Kareem = 0 scoring titles without Oscar
The NBA's leading all-time scorer couldn't lead the NBA in scoring without being set up by Oscar Robertson, probably the second-best playmaker of all-time after Magic Johnson
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1971-1974 with Oscar
30.9 ppg on 56%
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1975-1979 post-Oscar pre-Magic
26.6 ppg on 55%
-4.3 ppg decrease
Every year from the 1975 to 1979 season, Kareem's scoring continually decreased without Oscar Robertson by his side. This was not because Kareem had passed his prime, since Kareem was 27-31 during those years. In 1980, when Magic Johnson became a Laker, Kareem's scoring finally increased again at age 32 and he shot the highest FG% of his career.
Kareem = 3 seasons of 30+ ppg in 4 seasons with Oscar
Kareem = 0 seasons of 30+ ppg in any season without Oscar
Kareem came close with 29.98 PPG in the 1975 season, but even this came under anomalous circumstances. Firstly, the Bucks still missed the playoffs with Kareem, making his numbers empty stats a-la Demarcus Cousins with the Kings or Anthony Davis with the Pelicans. Secondly, the 1975 Western Conference was one of 6 times in a 79+ game season (1961-present) that a conference failed to produce a 50+ win team. This means that Kareem's numbers came under incredibly easy circumstances, even for the already weak standards of the 1970s. Lastly, Kareem shot the worst FG% of his career in the 1975 season (excluding his very last season at age 41) despite those favorable circumstances, so his high volume came at a high cost without Oscar.
The Bucks made the 1971 and 1974 Finals when Oscar led the playoffs in APG, but failed to make the Finals in 1972 and 1973 when Oscar did not lead the playoffs in APG, losing in 1 or 2 rounds. So without Oscar leading the playoffs in APG or having the all-time regular season and playoff leader in APG in Magic Johnson by his side, Kareem had no chance of making the Finals even under his very favorable circumstances. Without the two best playmakers of all-time playing at an extremely high level, Kareem's teams were going nowhere in the playoffs.
All players with 10+ APG in a Finals run
Bob Cousy 1 time (1959 - only lasted 2 rounds)
Magic Johnson 7 times, 6 of which Kareem benefited from
1974 Bucks with Oscar = Game 7 of the NBA Finals
1975 Bucks without Oscar = missed playoffs
1975 Bucks with Kareem = 38-44
1976 Bucks without Kareem = 38-44
Kareem became the only consensus top 10 player to miss the playoffs twice in prime without Oscar or Magic in 1975 and 1976. Kareem beat ZERO (0) 50+ win teams in the playoffs in 6 seasons without Oscar/Magic, 5 of which were prime seasons.
After struggling without Oscar, Kareem lucks out and is gifted Magic Johnson, the all-time leader in regular season and playoff APG, to set up his points like Oscar did.
In the 1980, 1981, and 1982 seasons, Kareem had more PPG with Magic than in the 1979 season without Magic, despite his minutes continuing to decrease each of those years and being ages 32-34. Kareem's 3 highest and 5 of his 6 highest FG% seasons came with Magic Johnson despite being ages 32-37 in those years with Magic. This is quite clearly because of Magic's passing.
Excluding Kareem's last season at age 41,
Kareem's 3 worst FG% seasons were non-Oscar/Magic years
1976 - 53%
1970 - 52%
1975 - 51%
2 of which were prime seasons
These statistics and facts with context clearly show that Kareem heavily depended on Magic and Oscar's passing to set him up. His best PPG and FG% years were with Oscar and Magic respectively, even when playing with Magic at ages 32-37. Yet Kareem's 3 worst FG% seasons, excluding his very last year at age 41, were in non-Magic/Oscar years, even when in his prime at age 27 and 28.
Part 3 - Kareem was not even the best player in 5 of 6 championships
Kareem only won 2 Finals MVPs out of 6 titles, and his second Finals MVP was undeserved. Kareem's 1971 Finals MVP came after one of the weakest roads to the title of all time as listed earlier.
41-41 Warriors
48-34 Lakers (no Jerry West)
42-40 Bullets (Gus Johnson out 2 of 4 games)
1980 Playoffs
Kareem averaged 33-14-3 on 55% with 4.6 bpg for the 5 games he played in the NBA Finals, incredible averages. Magic put up great numbers as well, flirting with triple double averages of 22-11-9 on 57% along with 2.7 spg. Magic was 0.6 apg from averaging a triple double for the entire 1980 Playoffs. Even so, looking only at box score stats it still looks as if Kareem has the edge.
However, Magic's intangibles and his keys to the Lakers' success, even as a rookie, cannot be understated. In the 5 prime seasons that Kareem played after Oscar and before Magic (1974/75 to 1978/79), he missed the playoffs twice in his prime and never won more than one playoff series in any year, despite playing with good players such as Goodrich, Dantley, Norm Nixon, and Wilkes.
In 1979/1980 Kareem's first season next to Magic's playmaking, he shot a career high 60% FG and won consecutive playoff series for the first time since the 1974 Bucks' Finals run. Kareem's 3 highest and 5 of his 6 highest FG% seasons came with Magic Johnson despite being ages 32-37 in those years with Magic. This is quite clearly because of Magic's passing. Magic's playmaking was clearly essential for Kareem, and the rest of the Lakers, to play at such an efficient level and in order for the Lakers to have success as a team.
Lastly, Magic proved that he could get it done without Kareem, clinching Game 6 of the Finals on the road against the Sixers with a monster stat-line of 42-15-7-3-1 while Kareem nursed his ankle injury. Magic was fully capable of putting up even greater stats than he normally did when necessary, but as the greatest playmaker of all-time he was content with making sure his teammates were playing great, while sacrificing his own stats for team success. That key intangible was the reason Magic Johnson was the best player on each of his 5 championships, regardless of who won Finals MVP.
Had it been Scottie Pippen putting up 42-15-7 to win Finals without Jordan in a closeout game, Jordan would forever be diminished and discredited for it. But because it happened to Kareem, he gets little criticism for some reason.
1982 Playoffs
Magic Johnson
17.4 ppg - 11.3 rpg - 9.3 apg on 53% and 2.9 spg
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
20.4 ppg - 8.5 rpg - 3.6 apg on 52% and 3.2 bpg
Magic was 0.7 apg from averaging a playoff triple double and was clearly the best Laker in their second 80s title as well.
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1982 Finals
18.0 ppg 7.7 rpg 3.8 apg on 53% FG - 54% FT
Vlade Divac 1991 Finals
18.2 ppg 8.2 rpg 2.0 apg on 57% FG - 100% FT
1985 Playoffs
Kareem didn't deserve the 1985 Finals MVP at all. Magic averaged a playoff record 15.2 apg and a Finals record 14.0 apg in 1985. Kareem and the other Lakers' scoring heavily benefited from Magic having the best passing and playmaking series in NBA Finals history. So simply copy pasting Kareem's stats and comparing them with Magic is not fair. Kareem's scoring, especially at that age, only looked so good because of the passing of Magic Johnson himself, by far the greatest playmaker and point guard of all-time.
When you factor in that Magic's 14.0 apg in the Finals translates to at least 28.0 ppg (at least 2 points per assist) Magic accounted for at least 46 ppg in the Finals, far higher than anyone else in those Finals. So Magic's 18-7-14 on 56% is clearly better than Kareem's 26-9-5 on 60% when you put Magic's apg in statistical context, not to mention the context of Magic's intangibles as mentioned earlier. Magic had by far the greatest passing NBA Finals series of all-time (nobody besides Magic has even reached 11.5 apg in the Finals) and should have been the clear-cut 1985 Finals MVP, without a doubt. For the playoffs as a whole, Magic accounted for at least 47.9 PPG if all assists are 2 points, which once again was far higher than any other Laker in the 1985 Playoffs. No other Laker would have accounted for 30 ppg in the playoffs if all assists counted as 2 points.
1987 Playoffs
Magic Johnson
21.8 ppg - 7.7 rpg - 12.2 apg on 54%
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
19.2 ppg - 6.8 rpg - 2.0 apg on 53%
Pau Gasol 2010 Title run
19.6 ppg - 11.1 rpg - 3.5 apg on 54%
1988 Playoffs
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
14.1 ppg - 5.5 rpg - 1.5 apg on 46%
Kareem was a role player that was just along for the ride in his last ring
Conclusion - Kareem's rings are not at all comparable to the likes of Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, Magic, Bird etc. Kareem was a follower, not a leader, except in the case of 1971 against incredibly weak competition.
Part 4 - Kareem was a mediocre defender
Willis Reed = 0 seasons of 22 ppg
Willis Reed = 27.8 ppg vs Kareem in 1970 EDF
Wilt Chamberlain (Age 34)
20.7 ppg on 55% in the season
22.0 ppg (FG% N/A) vs Kareem in 1971 WCF
1972 season
Kareem = 34.8 ppg on 57%
Thurmond = 21.4 ppg on 43%
1972 WCSF
Kareem = 22.8 ppg on 41%
Thurmond = 25.4 ppg (FG% N/A)
The Bucks still won thanks to Oscar carrying Kareem. With Kareem struggling, Oscar redirected the offense through Bob Dandridge, who outscored Kareem 24 to 23 ppg. Kareem shot a poor 64% FT in the 1972 WCSF
1973
Kareem = 30.2 ppg on 55% in the season
Kareem = 22.8 ppg on 43% in WCSF vs Thurmond
Oscar = 21-5-8 on 50% FG - 91% FT, but the Bucks still lost despite Kareem having such stacked help.
Kareem also shot a poor 53% FT in the 1973 WCSF
1974
Cowens = 19 ppg on 44% in the season
Cowens = 23 ppg on 44% in Finals vs Kareem
1974 Finals Game 7
Cowens = 28-14-4-2-1 on 52% FG - 100% FT
Kareem = 26-13-4-0-0 on 48% FG - 55% FT
Cowens outperformed Kareem in every statistic except for tying him in assists.
1975 and 1976
Kareem became only consensus top 10 player to miss 2 playoffs in his prime
1977
Walton = 18.6 ppg 14.4 rpg 3.8 apg on 53% in the season
Walton = 19.3 ppg 14.8 rpg 5.8 apg on 50% in WCF vs Kareem
Walton's PPG, RPG, and APG all increased against Kareem with a slight dip in FG%
1978
Jack Sikma = 10.7 ppg on 46% in his rookie season
Jack Sikma = 18.3 ppg (N/A FG%) vs Kareem in 1st round win
1980
Darryl Dawkins = 14.7 ppg on 52% in the season
Darryl Dawkins = 21.4 ppg on 52% in 1980 Finals Games 1-5
Game 6 is excluded because Kareem did not play
Interestingly, Dawkins only had 14 points on Game 6 when Kareem did not play after scoring over 20 in 4 consecutive games when Kareem played in Games 2-5 .
1981 1st Rd (FG% N/A)
Moses Malone - 31.3 ppg
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 26.7 ppg
Moses beat Kareem with a 40-42 team
1982
Dave Corzine - 10-8 on 52% in the season
Dave Corzine - 16-11 on 47% in WCF vs Kareem
1983 Finals
Moses Malone - 25.8 ppg 18.0 rpg on 51%
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 23.5 ppg 7.5 rpg on 55%
Moses' PPG, RPG, and FG% all increased compared to the regular season
1983
Artis Gilmore - 18-12 on 63% in the season
Artis Gilmore - 20-14 on 60% vs Kareem in 1983 WCF
In 1984 Kareem turned 36, so we won't look at his mediocre defense from that point on.
Conclusion - Kareem was a mediocre defender who often got lit up and exposed against other big men.
 |
| Even on accolades alone, Jordan beats Kareem, though this is not my criteria for why he is better (Original) |
More
- Looking at how the Jordan Era players had an easier time in the modern era
- Looking at how a 38-40 year old Jordan himself schooled the 2000s defenders
SECTION 3 - Jordan's "Weak" Defensive Competition Compared to Lebron/Kobe's "Advanced" Competition
- Proving the vast superiority of individual defenders of Jordan's era compared to the 2000s
- Destroying the myth that Jordan never played zone defense
- Proof that 80s/90s players would still have success guarding 2000s players without the 80s/90s rules
- Looking at how Jordan did against the 80s teams and why expansion did not make it easier to win championships
- Proof that Jordan's Competition was 80s-quality and far better than the 2000s era
- Looking at the truth of how the Bulls did without Jordan, and how other great teams did without their stars.
- Did Jordan really get any more special treatment than other superstars? Nope.
- Exposing the myths behind the great, but misunderstood, Wilt Chamberlain
- Looking at how Lebron got locked down by defenders of the 2000s era and comparing them to the vastly superior 80s/90s
- Destroying one of the media's biggest misconceptions regarding Lebron's solid but vastly overrated defense
- Lebron fans think no player in history could succeed if their teammates don't step up, and that Lebron is the only one who has carried a team on his back. Is that really the case?
- The real Jordan vs Lebron comparison
- The real Jordan vs Kobe comparison
- Kareem is great, but he is not even the greatest center of all-time, let alone the greatest of all-time.
- The full context behind Jordan's struggles without Pippen
- A look at how Jordan turned the Wizards around before his knee injury caught up to him
- Looking at Jordan's defensive impact in detail, both as a team player and 1 on 1 defender
- Looking at the strong evidence supporting that Jordan would have achieved more than what LeBron has in Cleveland and Miami
SECTION 21 - Hakeem Olajuwon: The Greatest Center of All-Time
- Hakeem Olajuwon is the best center of all-time, and there is strong evidence to prove it
SECTION 22 - Chris Paul: The Most Overrated Point Guard Of All-Time
- Chris Paul is an extremely overrated playoff performer and defender, and isn't even a top 5 PG of his own era, let alone all-time
SECTION 23 - Kevin Johnson: The Most Underrated Point Guard Of All-Time
- Kevin Johnson is an extremely underrated and under-appreciated point guard, who should have been a first-ballot Hall of Famer and considered a top-10 point guard of all-time
SECTION 24 - The Three Greatest Playoff Runs of All-Time
- Analyzing the three greatest individual playoff runs in NBA history
SECTION 25 - The Worst Finals Performances of All-Time
- Analyzing the worst performances in NBA Finals history
SECTION 26 - Jordan vs Russell
- Comparing the two players who won the most championships as the best player on their team
SECTION 27 - The Five Greatest Coaches of All-Time
- Taking a look at the greatest coaches in NBA history
SECTION 28 - The Least Deserving Finals MVPs of All-Time
- Taking a look at the players who least deserved to win their Finals MVPs
SECTION 29 - Refuting 10 Myths About Michael Jordan
- Refuting certain myths about Jordan, as well as abridging of some of the main points in earlier sections for easier reference.
SECTION 30 - The 20 Greatest Conference Finals Runs of All-Time
- Ranking the 20 greatest playoff runs in which a player played 3 rounds before losing prior to the NBA Finals
SECTION 31 - The 1970s: The Weakest Decade of the NBA's Post-Infancy
- Why the 1970s was the weakest decade of any era from 1960-present
SECTION 32 - The 10 Worst Supporting Casts on NBA Finals Teams (1960-Present)
- Examining the worst supporting casts on teams that reached the NBA Finals
SECTION 33 - The 10 Greatest Rookie Playoff Runs of All-Time
- The most impressive playoff runs in which rookies led their team to at least one series win
SECTION 21 - Hakeem Olajuwon: The Greatest Center of All-Time
- Hakeem Olajuwon is the best center of all-time, and there is strong evidence to prove it
SECTION 22 - Chris Paul: The Most Overrated Point Guard Of All-Time
- Chris Paul is an extremely overrated playoff performer and defender, and isn't even a top 5 PG of his own era, let alone all-time
SECTION 23 - Kevin Johnson: The Most Underrated Point Guard Of All-Time
- Kevin Johnson is an extremely underrated and under-appreciated point guard, who should have been a first-ballot Hall of Famer and considered a top-10 point guard of all-time
SECTION 24 - The Three Greatest Playoff Runs of All-Time
- Analyzing the three greatest individual playoff runs in NBA history
SECTION 25 - The Worst Finals Performances of All-Time
- Analyzing the worst performances in NBA Finals history
SECTION 26 - Jordan vs Russell
- Comparing the two players who won the most championships as the best player on their team
SECTION 27 - The Five Greatest Coaches of All-Time
- Taking a look at the greatest coaches in NBA history
SECTION 28 - The Least Deserving Finals MVPs of All-Time
- Taking a look at the players who least deserved to win their Finals MVPs
SECTION 29 - Refuting 10 Myths About Michael Jordan
- Refuting certain myths about Jordan, as well as abridging of some of the main points in earlier sections for easier reference.
SECTION 30 - The 20 Greatest Conference Finals Runs of All-Time
- Ranking the 20 greatest playoff runs in which a player played 3 rounds before losing prior to the NBA Finals
SECTION 31 - The 1970s: The Weakest Decade of the NBA's Post-Infancy
- Why the 1970s was the weakest decade of any era from 1960-present
SECTION 32 - The 10 Worst Supporting Casts on NBA Finals Teams (1960-Present)
- Examining the worst supporting casts on teams that reached the NBA Finals
SECTION 33 - The 10 Greatest Rookie Playoff Runs of All-Time
- The most impressive playoff runs in which rookies led their team to at least one series win
Thank you I just finished this blog, now I really think Hakeem is the best center of all-time. Really fed up with those fans that always use the amount of MVPs as an argument.
ReplyDeleteI think the most important category in basketball is performance and making shots under pressure.
If Hakeem Olajuwon is as great as you say he is, and his teammates were as bad as you say he is, then he would have been a 30ppg, 15rpg guy for his career. There's a reason most people have him as a borderline top ten guy, and even his former teammate Kenny Smith, who raves about him all the time, declared he is not top ten.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SypdW1rjzkM
He's a borderline top 10 on lots of lists because people are uneducated on how much vastly superior Hakeem was compared to any other center.
DeleteAlso, because of his team circumstances Hakeem does in fact have the record for 9 seasons leading a team in averaging 4/5 categories, almost 10 straight but was barely short in steals in 93/94. Hakeem couldn't put up 30-15 every night because he had to carry the team in nearly all aspects, not just ppg and rpg. Kareem never had to lead a team in 4/5 for a single season, because he had the luxury of playing wth Oscar and Magic nearly his entire career.
As explained in the article, Garnett is the only other player with more than 3 seasons leading a team in 4/5 categories, with 7, and only made it out the 1st round once under those circumstances. There's only one player in history who came close to carrying Hakeem's load, and he only had 1 year of playoff success under the same circumstances. So yes, Hakeem carried the biggest load with the worst teammates for the longest time
also, who cares what Kenny Smith thinks? His teammate Horry said Hakeem was the best by far, and he played with both Duncan and Shaq.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlurRMPlfxQ
Jordan also said he'd pick Hakeem over any other center
http://nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot.com/2015/10/section-23-hakeem-olajuwon-greatest.html
I'm not sure why Robert Horry thinks that 71 and 85 are the same number, and I also recall Jordan picking Kwame Brown as his center in Washington. And if you're going to say that, then you have to give LeBron a lot more credit for doing it all.
DeleteIf LeBron took 15 shots per game and got swept (as Hakeem did in 1996), you would destroy him. But for Hakeem you give him a pass because he's a favorite of yours.
You're a smart guy but you have the "story" in mind, and then look for the facts, rather than the other way around.
https://vimeo.com/124561256
I agree, using Horry and Jordan quotes isn't why Hakeem is the best, just like Kenny Smith saying Hakeem isn't top 10 doesn't matter at all. Next, I didn't give Hakeem a pass for 1996. I specifically stated that was the only poor playoff series of his career pre-98 knee surgery
Deletealso, I don't have to give LeBron much credit. The only 2 championships of his career came in the weakest East since the early 2000s. 5 of 6 East opponents he played in 2012 and 2013 had under 50 wins, including both ECF opponents, adjusting 2012 teams for 82 games. In 2013 he beat 0 50-win teams to make the Finals
To put that in perspective, Jordan (10-0), Kobe (6-0, starter years only), Duncan (13-1), LeBron (16-0), and Russell (13-1) are 58-2 against sub-50 teams, adjusting pre-1968 teams and 1999/2012 lockout teams for 82 games. The 2 losses are when Russell was injured in the 1958 Finals and when Duncan was 34 against the 2011 Grizzlies.
Hakeem lost to a few sub-50 teams, but as has already been explained in the article he had the largest load to carry on the worst teams for the longest time. Garnett is the only one who came close to matching Hakeem's load, and only had 1 year of playoff success in that situation, so it makes sense Hakeem was losing to lesser teams more often than other legends, given how much worse his teams were compared to any other legend for the longest time.
The only years where LeBron consistently played well in the elimination series and still lost are 2006, 2009, and 2015, whereas Hakeem played well in every series loss pre-98 knee surgery aside from 1996 WCSF, while playing with less help. In 1990 he wasn't as good on offense due to a injury and a brace he had on his knee/leg but still very good on defense
And LeBron doesn't have to do it all because of his consistently inconsistent defense, so that's less reason to give him more credit, on top of playing sub-50 teams for nearly half of his playoff career (16 of 33 teams as of 2015 Playoffs)
http://nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot.com/2014/09/section-12-lebron-can-not-guard-1-5.html
Hey man, I'm not a LeBron fan, Hakeem fan, or anything. I just tell it how it is, and like I said you're a smart guy but you're very biased and you can't see it (which is almost always the case). I'll do what you do real quick here, except the opposite way.
ReplyDeleteIn 1991 the Houston Rockets went 16-10 without Hakeem (a 50 win pace) and finished the season with 52 wins overall - so I guess Mr. Do it all greatest center ever really contributed to the team right?
Then in the playoffs proceeds to get swept by a Lakers team with a point guard who would go on to be diagnosed with HIV later that year, and a second-year center by the name of Vlade freaking Divac. Mr. Do it all greatest center ever took 15 shots per game and got swept (just like in 1996), and in his prime age of 28 no less. LeBron at 28 had one of the greatest years ever and fell one vote short of becoming the first ever unanimous MVP, and won a second straight title and Finals MVP. Need I say more? LeBron>Hakeem
See how easy it is.
that's 1 season in a whole career that you picked out. One anomaly where they did good in the regular season without him doesn't matter
DeleteRockets in 1985/86
44-24 with Hakeem (0.647 win%) and NBA Finals
7-7 (0.500 win%) without Hakeem
Rockets in 1986/87
40-35 (0.533 win%) with Hakeem
2-5 (0.286 win%) without Hakeem
Rockets in 1991/92
40-30 (0.571 win%) with Hakeem
2-10 (0.167 win%) without Hakeem, causing them to miss the playoffs
1994/95 Rockets (champs)
44-28 (0.573 win%) with Hakeem and a title
3-7 (0.300 win%) without Hakeem
Rockets in 1995/96 (2x defending champ)
47-25 (0.573 win%) with Hakeem
1-9 (0.100 win%) without Hakeem
So as we can see, one season doesn't nearly define his whole career
also Magic Johnson had HIV, yet was 2nd place in MVP voting that year in 1991 and averaged a triple double in the WCSF. Hakeem had 22-15-2-1-3 on 58% in that series which is far from bad like you make it sound with 15 shots a game
also LeBron faced far easier competition in 2012 and 2013 than Hakeem. The only 2 championships of his career came in the weakest East since the early 2000s. 5 of 6 East opponents he played in 2012 and 2013 had under 50 wins, including both ECF opponents, adjusting 2012 teams for 82 games. In 2013 he beat 0 50-win teams to make the Finals. Far from impressive competition
The only other legit MVP candidate LeBron faced in 2012 and 2013 was Kevin Durant, not even a top 25 player of all-time, so it's not a big surprise he was a near-unanimous MVP. Nope, LeBron isn't even close to Hakeem. The only 2 titles of his career came in the weakest East since the early 2000s