Wednesday, September 17, 2014

SECTION 11 - The "Lebron is a 6-8 250 Freight Train and too Big/Strong/Fast to be Guarded in the 80s/90s era" Myth

According to Lebron's Fans' Logic, Vince Carter is harder to guard
than Larry Bird because he is much more athletic and faster.
But we already saw how a washed up shell of the 90s Knicks
completely destroyed Vince in the 2000 and 2001 playoffs.
First of all, athleticism doesn't mean anything. There's a lot of players who can jump high, run fast, and who are huge. That doesn't mean they could dominate the 80s/90s. Are you seriously telling me that a 2000s benchwarmer like the athletic freak James White could be a star  in Jordan or Magic's league? Are Vince Carter, Shawn Kemp, or Steve Francis better players than Larry Bird, Tim Duncan, or John Stockton just because they are a lot more physically gifted and athletic? If athleticism was such a huge advantage, players like Kevin Love, Tim Duncan, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, and Paul Pierce wouldn't be dominating the 2000s league. Teams like the Celtics, Spurs, and Mavericks also wouldn't be winning championships. Clearly athleticism doesn't give any indication of success or quality of players/teams. And regardless, we already saw that the 2000s defenses were far inferior to the 80s/90s.
Why couldn't Larry Nance dominate the
"slow unathletic bums" of the 80s/90s?
Secondly, since the mid-70s, there hasn't been any major difference in the overall athletic ability of players. People point to the increase in track and field or swimming times and weightlifting records as "proof" that today's NBA players are more athletic. What does track and field or swimming have to do with basketball? Being the best basketball player doesn't rely on jumping the highest or being the fastest, otherwise Vince Carter and Russell Westbrook would be among the best players of all time.

 I'm going to go on a bit of a tangent and show that the disparity between modern and old athletes isn't that much. Usain Bolt’s fastest 100-meter time, 9.58 seconds, demolishes Jesse Owen’s record of 10.2 seconds in 1936. The 0.62-second difference is huge in the sprinting world. Remember, however that Bolt has the benefit of running on specially designed synthetic tracks as well as having a starting block to propel off of. Owens was not given a head start from starting blocks like Bolt, and he ran on uneven tracks made from the ashes of burnt cinders. On top of that, he wore heavy leather shoes instead of specialized sneakers. Lastly, hand timers were used instead of electronic timing like today, so the human error in timing may also have added a little extra to Owen’s time.

Much of the disparity between Owens’ and Bolt’s times is attributable to the changes in sprinting regulations, not purely based on the improvement of athletes over the years. Even in a one-dimensional sport like sprinting, which relies purely on athleticism, the difference in older and newer athletes is not as great as people think. Swimming is in the same boat.
From the 1950s to today, changes in regulations resulted in noticeable increases in swimming times. These include permitting swimmers to propel themselves off of the pool wall on a turn, introducing gutters to prevent water from impeding the athletes, and introducing specialized swimsuits to further benefit today’s athletes. Similar examples extend to cycling and other racing sports.


Basketball is not a sport that relies 100% on physical conditioning like sprinting,
so such a comparison to prove modern superiority of basketball players is
pointless. Nevertheless, improvements in track and field times have a lot
to do with factors unrelated to athletic development.
Now, basketball is not a one-dimensional sport that relies almost entirely on being physically gifted and fit like swimming and sprinting, so such a comparison in the first place shouldn't be necessary. Nevertheless, the disparity between old school athletes and modern athletes is far from as great as a lot of the newer generation make it out to be.

As another example before we get back to basketball, let's look at boxing. Bernard Hopkins started his boxing career in 1988. According to some misinformed people, athletes from the 1980s are not good enough to compete with athletes from the 21st century. But what happened? While Hopkins is approaching 50, he continues to fight 26 years later and is a light heavyweight champion as of 2014, and is scheduled to compete in yet another title unification bout. He isn't fighting because he's broke, he's fighting because he's good enough to still be a champion at the age of nearly 50.

 If today's athletes in boxing are so much better, faster, and stronger, why is an old school guy from the 1980s dominating the modern sport at the age of almost 50? In the same way, why is a 40 year old Jordan schooling the 2000s NBA as we already saw if todays NBA players are supposed to be better and more skilled? Jordan's 2001/02 season at age 39 was better than Lebron's Rookie of the Year campaign because today's NBA players today are worse than those of the 1980s and 1990s, as hard as it may be for some of the modern fans to accept. You can even look at the fact that washed up versions of 90s defenses shut down 2000s superstars, even without the 80s/90s defensive rules as further proof.
If athletes in boxing and basketball are better in the 2000s than they were
in the 1980s/90s, then why is a nearly 50 year old Bernard Hopkins
dominating boxing just like a 40 year old Jordan schooled the modern NBA?

It is idiotic when people claim that today's players are more athletic, faster, stronger, blah blah blah. Athletic NBA players aren't anything new. How many forwards have you seen with power in their dunks like Shawn Kemp. Darryl Dawkins, or Dominique Wilkins? And no, Lebron and Blake Griffin are not better or more powerful dunkers than Kemp, Dominique, or Dawkins. All that modern nutrition and exercise are new tools to become athletically advanced, but they don't necessarily make you better than the ones who came before.
How many players have you seen that can glide like Clyde or Dr J? Vince can glide, but has nowhere near the hangtime that Clyde had (I do think Vince is the greatest dunker of all time, but when it comes to hang time he is not in Clyde or Dr J's league). And even with a super athletic freak like Vince, we already saw that even a 40 year old Jordan on shot knees had more 40 point games in the 2001/02 season than him, despite only playing in 60 games for the season. So that athleticism doesn't mean anything. Plus, that athletic freak Vince Carter got completely shut down in both the 2000 and 2001 playoffs against a 90s defender, Latrell Sprewell. Oh, and that was without the 80s/90s defensive rules allowed.

How many 6' 4'' players today can touch the top of the backboard like David Thompson? How many 5' 6" guys are there in the NBA that can leap like Spud Webb? How many guards in today's league can leap as high or run as fast as Jordan? Defensively, there isn't one player in the league, or in NBA history, that can effectively guard 1-5 like Dennis Rodman did, and NO, the lie that ESPN tells you when they say Lebron can guard 1-5 is not true. Lebron is not even as versatile a defender as Pippen, and Pippen could only consistently guard 1-4, with rare success at the 5.
There is nothing new or special about high-flying PGs
Some may say that today's league has athletic high flying PGs like Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook. Cool. Kevin Johnson has already been there and done that. Oh by the way, Kevin Johnson put up better numbers in his prime than Chris Paul did, and that's without the inflation benefit. 

 Oh and the blazingly fast Allen Iverson? He had worse numbers in the Jordan era than he did in the 2000s. He got contained by the 2000s Pacers defense in the playoffs, a shell of the defense that the 1998 Pacers had as we already saw here. So much for the Jordan era being too weak to contain his speed and quickness.

According to Lebron/Kobe/2000s fanboys, you could take any athletic player, dump them in the 80s/90s and they would be superstars. Well, how come Larry Nance, Darrell Griffith, or Isiah Rider were never among the best in the league? Why were Kenny Walker, Terrence Stansbury, and Harold Miner nothing more than just role players? Why were Darvin Ham and Jerome Lane just benchwarmers?

Let's look at Shaq, a 7-1 320+ lb behemoth that plowed through everybody in the 2000s. You would think that a monster like him would eat up the "slow, unathletic, weak defenders" of the Jordan era. But we already saw that his scoring was lower in the Jordan era, and his scoring only started decreasing in the 2000s after Kobe became a bigger scoring option. Even then, Shaq's scoring decrease in the 2000s even then resulted in higher scoring than the majority of his seasons in the Jordan era. Shaq also had no success in the Jordan era when it came to winning. He had a combined playoff record of 1-16 against Malone's Jazz, prime Hakeem's Rockets, and the 96 Bulls when Jordan played a full season for the first time in 3 years. 

 Against the Jazz in the 1997 Playoffs, Shaq's production decreased from 26.2 ppg on 56% in the regular season to 22.0 ppg on 49%. He wasn't too big, strong, or athletic to be guarded against the top teams back then, and the same would be the case for Lebron. Later in this section we will also soon see how  6-8 220 lb Rodman shut down 7-1 320+ lb Shaq.
If speed and athleticism determined greatness,
then Steve Francis would be better than
John Stockton. This is obviously not true.
After Wilt Chamberlain, Shaq is perhaps the most physically gifted center of all time, but he still ended up getting swept by the top teams in the 90s. If Shaq's massive size advantage didn't dominate the 90s, Lebron's athleticism and quickness isn't going to be any different, especially since Lebron has never dominated the watered down 2000s to the degree that Shaq did in the years of the Lakers 3peat.

Now, I hear the "Lebron is a 6-8 250 unguardable freight train" argument more than anything else, so we're going to destroy this myth once and for all. Shawn Kemp was 6-10 240, could leap even higher than Lebron, had a solid midrange game, a far better post up game than Lebron (not implying he's a better overall player, just his post-up game), and moved really fast for a guy his size. He was a very good player in his prime, but nobody ever said ridiculous things like - "Oh, he's 6-10 240, may be able to touch the top of the backboard, and he is 100% unguardable because the 90s players are too small and aren't athletic enough"
Shawn Kemp was a very good
player in his prime. But he
was far from from a completely
unguardable and unstoppable
monster despite his size and athleticism
Let's also look at a prime 6-3 180 Gary Payton, not the 35 year old washed up Payton that schooled Lebron on defense, as an example that size, athleticism, leaping ability, and speed doesn't mean anything on defense. This is all common sense, but with the ridiculous statements that Lebron and 2000s fanboys say it seems that common sense ain't so common.

Gary Payton is the only player to ever hold Jordan under 31 ppg in the NBA Finals. 1996 MVP Jordan, who led the Bulls to a record 72 wins, only averaged 27 ppg against Payton in the NBA Finals, and had only one game of more than 30 points in the entire Finals.

Jordan had his lowest FG% in an NBA Finals going against Payton, not against the Jazz with 6-7 230 Bryon Russell or 6-6 210 Shandon Anderson.

The 91 Lakers with the number 2 defense in the league and 6-9 225 1988 Finals MVP James Worthy let Jordan light them up with 31 ppg and 11.4 apg on 56%. For people who are going to use James Worthy's ankle as an excuse, he played for 4 out of the 5 games (in which the Bulls essentially ended the series going up 3-1) and averaged 19 ppg on 48%, not too far off of his regular season averages of 21 ppg on 49%. Considering he was going against the Bulls with the top 4 defense in the league, that very slight drop in numbers gives no indication that the ankle was bothering him.

The 92 Blazers, with elite perimeter defenders like 6-7 210 highflying Clyde Drexler, 6-10 230 Cliff Robinson, (Even at age 35-36 was a starter and key piece of the 2002 and 03 Pistons defenses) got lit up with 36 ppg on 53% shooting.  

You get the point. Size and athleticism doesn't matter when it comes to defense if you can play like Payton. Name me one "athletically superior, advanced, high-flying" point guard today that could have locked down a 1996 Jordan. Rose? Lillard? Wall? Paul? Rondo? Kyrie? Westbrook? Curry? Nash? Nope. None of those players, even the good defensive ones like Rondo, are even close to half the defender that a prime Payton was.
Despite his lack of athleticism, Payton did much better defense
on 1996 MVP Jordan than top defenders of the 2000s did
on a 38-40 year old Jordan. Payton also outperformed the
more athletic Jordan defenders that failed to slow him down

By the way, the Suns tried putting one of those high-flying super fast PGs on Jordan at times in the 1993 Finals with Kevin Johnson. The same Kevin Johnson who in his prime put up better points, assists, and FG% than Chris Paul without the inflation benefit. Jordan ended up with 41 ppg and 6 apg on 51% for the series.
And Jordan did this in the modern era against the supposedly superior defenders.

 While preparing for his return, Jordan's ribs were injured by Ron Artest during a pickup game. Jordan rushed his return to training, and Tim Grover advised against this due to tendonitis risk. Jordan overworked himself and his knees became a problem. 

Before the season started, Jordan was already dealing with 
- having to skip 3 days of practice before the season opener in MSG because of fluid buildup in his knee 
- recovering from 2 broken ribs (against Artest) and back spasms
- tendinitis in his knee and wrist
- and during the season Jordan had fluid drained from his knee multiple times

So even before his knee injury, he was already in a hobbled state

Some more context.

MJ 2001/02 season before injury (Age 38) through 46 games 
- (pts, rebs, assist, steals, blk) - 25.1 - 6.2 - 5.3 - 1.5 - 0.5 on 42% 
- slightly better than his 1996 Finals MVP averages
  • T-Mac was the only player to finish the season averaging at least 25-6-5
  • Jordan was averaging 25.1 - 6.2 - 5.3 - 1.5 - 0.5 at age 38 pre-injury
  • LeBron in 2014/15 - 25.3 - 6.0 - 7.4 - 1.6 - 0.7 at age 30
Defensively Jordan also had an impact even at this late stage of his career.
2001 Wizards = 2nd worst in ppg allowed the year before.

Up to the injury game
2002 Wizards = allowed 92.2 ppg through 47 games (Jordan missed 1 game)
- would be tied for 6th-best in the league with the Pistons.

2002 Wizards = allowed 92.0 ppg in the 46 games Jordan played
- would be tied for 5th best in the league with the Nets

After Jordan's injury 
2002 Wizards = allowed 96.8 ppg in the remaining 35 games
- would be ranked 19th in the league
- and fell to 11th in ppg allowed for the overall season.

The only negative of Jordan's game was FG%, which is to be expected at the tail end of your career, and his low FG% had much more to do with his back, rib, knee, and wrist injuries along with his old age, rather than the defense he was facing. However, low FG% doesn't necessarily equate to a negative effect on your team's win column. 
  • In Jordan's 46 games before knee injury the Wiz had a 26-20 (0.565 win%).
  • In games without MJ and post-injury, the Wiz had a 11-25 (0.300 win%)
MJ's Wiz did FAR worse without him or post-injury in the 2001/02 season. They went from playoff contenders to a horrible team. Jordan's low FG% is irrelevant, not only because 42% shooting as a 38 year old man off of 3 year retirement (and already dealing with tendinitis, knee and rib issues to start the season) is far from horrible, but because he helped his team win games regardless. 

 The 2001 Wizards were a 19-win team the year before, but well on track to make the playoffs with Jordan. There are only two instances that a team got a winning record one year after getting less than 20 wins

2004 Nuggets
- who drafted Carmelo
- and added Andre Miller

2009 Heat 
- with Wade coming back from injury
- along with adding Jermaine O'Neal 
- and drafting Michael Beasley.

Outside of Jordan, the 2002 Wizards' only new additions were 5 bench players, 4 of whom where rookies that played very little minutes  
- Tyronn Lue (20 mpg)
- Rookie Kwame Brown (14 mpg)
- Rookie Brendan Haywood (14 mpg)
- Rookie Etan Thomas (13 mpg)
- Rookie Bobby Simmons (11 mpg)

Jordan was the only new player on the 2002 team that had a significant impact and played significant minutes. So this would have been the only time that a sub-20 win team became a winning team within one season, after only adding 1 new starter. And on top of that, Jordan was able to have this impact despite the absence of Rip Hamilton for about a month during Jordan's 26-20 stretch (Jordan missed 1 game vs the Spurs - bringing the Wizards record to 26-21 before the injury). 

In the last 16 games that Rip and Jordan played together prior to Jordan's knee collision, the Wizards went 15-1, and they won 13 straight games when both of them played together. Had both Rip and MJ stayed healthy, they very well could have cracked 50 wins overall despite starting the season 2-9 and being a 19-win team the previous year. After Jordan's injury, Rip went 9-24 (0.273 win%) in the remaining games he played, so it was clearly Jordan who had by far the most impact on the W column. 

Now to see if size or athleticism really makes that much of a difference, let's look at how Dennis Rodman went against Shaq and other guys much bigger than "6-8 250 unguardable freight train" Lebron. Keep in mind that in the first three examples, this is a 35 to 36 year old Rodman who is not even in his prime, while the players he is defending are in the middle of their primes or very close to it.

1) Dennis Rodman (6-8, 220 lbs) shut down a 24 year old Shaq (7-1, 320+ lb) to 4 pts on 2/5 shooting in the whole second half and OT of a 1997 reg season game, after Shaq had 23 pts on 10/15 in the first half with Rodman not being the primary defender. In the first half, Shaq scored 19 of his 23 points on defenders other than Rodman.


 2) Dennis Rodman (6-8 220 lbs) held Alonzo Mourning (6-10, 260 lb) to 1-4 shooting in both Game 3 and Game 5 of the 1997 ECF. Mourning had 9 and 7 turnovers in both of those games. Alonzo had averaged 20 pts on 53% in the regular season that year.


 3) Dennis Rodman (6-8, 220 lbs) shut down 1997 MVP Karl Malone (6-10 265 lb) to 24 pts on 44% shooting in the 97 Finals compared to his regular season average of 27 pts on 55% shooting. Malone had shot 53 and 55% from the field in the 96/97 and 97/98 regular seasons, but in 12 NBA Finals games against Rodman he shot less than 50% on 8 different occasions.


 4) Dennis Rodman (6-8, 220 lbs) shut down a rookie Shaq (7-1, 300) in a 1993 regular season game. Shaq finished with 29 pts in the game, but Rodman only guarded him for the last 15 minutes of the game. Once Rodman guarded him, Shaq only took one shot and finished with one point in the 4th quarter.
Dennis Rodman repeatedly shut down much bigger and more athletic players than himself, even after his prime.
Clearly size and athleticism. doesn't matter if you can play defense like Rodman. Since when was Rodman a high-flying, blazingly fast player in the late 90s? He's not nearly as athletic as Lebron James, who can't even guard 13 ppg Kawhi Leonard in the Finals. And yes, starting with game 3, Leonard scored against Lebron on multiple possessions, forcing the Heat to take Lebron off of him because he was playing so poorly on Leonard.

Let's take a look at how the "athletically advanced and superior" stars of the modern NBA did against less physically gifted defensive teams.

1) Dwight Howard (6-11 265) in the 08/09 season had 20.6 ppg on 57%. Against the Lakers with a frontcourt of Pau Gasol (recognized as one of the softest PFs in the league), a small forward Lamar Odom, and an Andrew Bynum that played less than 20 mpg, Dwight was held to 15.4 ppg on 49%. The Lakers were not a top 10 defensive team that year
  •  Now imagine if he was going against Rodman/Robinson or Hakeem/Sampson
2) Blake Griffin (6-10 250) averaged 20.7 ppg on 55% and 18 ppg on 54% in his 2nd and 3rd year. In both playoff series against the Grizzlies during those years, with a front court of Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph (two of the slowest, unathletic big men in the league) he had just 18 ppg on 53% and 13 ppg on 45%
  • Now imagine if he was going against Parish/McHale or Ewing/Mason/Oakley

How come someone like Blake Griffin repeatedly struggles
against two of the slowest big men in the league?

3) Vince Carter put up 25.7 ppg on 47% in the 99/00 season, the same season where he had the best dunk contest performance of all time, and 27.6 ppg on 46% in the 2001 regular season. These are Vince's two best seasons scoring wise, and two of his three best seasons for FG% in his whole career.
  • In the 2000 playoffs against the Knicks, who had lost all of their top perimeter defenders from the early 90s and with a 37 year old Patrick Ewing, he got shut down to 19 ppg on 30%.
  • In the 2001 playoffs against that same Knicks team but without Ewing, he got held to 23 ppg on 38% shooting. That athleticism sure helped him against the "slow unathletic bums" from the late 90s.
4) Against the Rockets with Omer Asik and a physically gifted freak, the 3x DPOY 6-11 Dwight Howard guarding him, Aldridge averaged 30 ppg on 48%
  • But against the Spurs with a frontcourt of Thiago Splitter, Boris Diaw, and a 38 year old Tim Duncan, he had 22 ppg on 42%. That lack of athleticism by the Spurs meant absolutely nothing, since they played way better defense on Aldridge than an athletic beast like Dwight Howard did.
Now let's see how Mr. "6-8 250 unguardable freight train" Lebron himself does against modern defense - without hand check, with the help of illegal defensive 3 seconds to make the lanes wide open, and without physical play allowed.

I am not implying that all of the following defenses Lebron went up against are weak (although relatively speaking they are clearly far inferior to the top defenses like the 1980s and early 90s Pistons, 1980s Celtics, 1990s Knicks, 1996 Sonics, 1997 Heat, 1998 Pacers etc.), but these examples are only here to show that the "6-8 250, too big, too strong, too fast, too athletic to be guarded" myth is completely false.

1) Lebron averaged 35.6% shooting against the Spurs in the 2007 Finals. He averaged 5.75 turnovers per game in that series. For those who attribute this to Lebron's lack of help, that is no excuse. No one expected him to win, but at the very least Lebron could have played well in the Finals. There are several situations where players have been able to do so despite a lack of help, and Lebron doesn't get any special treatment for his pathetic performance.
  • This team was full of slow, old, unathletic players. The best perimeter defender on this Spurs team was a 35 year old Bruce Bowen that was two years from retirement.

 2) Against the 2008 Celtics, Lebron averaged 35.5% shooting. That team was full of old, slow, unathletic players. Lebron also had 5.28 turnovers per game.
  • The Celtics had DPOY Garnett, but he obviously wasnt guarding Lebron on the perimeter
  • Tony Allen only played 4 minutes a game in the 2008 series, and James Posey hardly played 20 mpg.
3) Lebron shot under 45% against the Celtics and averaged 4.5 turnovers per game in the 2010 ECSF. Garnett, Allen, and Pierce were all entering or in their mid-30s, and the best perimeter defender on this Celtics team was the 6-4 Tony Allen playing less than 20 mpg.

Lebron got completely shut down by a Spurs team with
 a 35 year old past prime Bruce Bown as the top defender
4) Lebron in the entire 2013 Finals shot 3-13 (23%) against Boris Diaw (0 defensive awards in his career), another slow unathletic defender.

5) Lebron in 2013 Finals for the first 3 games could not score 20 points once, against a very old Spurs team and had under 45% shooting in all of those games. Outside of Kawhi Leonard, there is not one player on that Spurs team that is remotely athletic, and even Leonard is not one of the fastest or strongest athletes out there.

6) In that same 2013 Finals, Lebron averaged less than 45% shooting against the old Spurs team.

7) Lebron in the 2011 Finals averaged less than 18 points per game, against a slow, unathletic Mavs team, and even against a 38 year old Jason Kidd. there was not one person on that Mavericks team that made an all-defensive first team in 2011, and 0 perimeter players from the Mavs made the team.
  • Misinformed people are going to bring up that the Mavs used zone, and zone was illegal in Jordan's era, but that is actually false as well. 
  • On top of that, Jordan torched one of the best zone defenses in the league at age 40, so that shows you what a pathetic excuse that is for Lebron's failure
8) The 2007 Wizards had the 3rd worst defense in the league. By the time the playoffs came around, two of their three best players, Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler, were out for the season. 
  • Lebron's averaged 42.5% shooting for the series, including two games apiece (Game 2 and 4) where he shot 8-22 (36.4%)
  • Lebron shot horribly against an injury-riddled team that was the 3rd worst defense in the league, and people think the Pistons, Knicks, Celtics, Sonics, etc would have a problem with him?
9) In the very next round of the 2007 playoffs, Lebron played a Nets team that was not in the top 10 defenses in the league. The only Nets player on the All-defensive team this year was Jason Kidd, who only made the second team and obviously was not assigned to guard Lebron
  • Lebron averaged 42.3% shooting against the Nets in this series compared to 47.6% in the regular season, and his PPG decreased from 27.3 in the season to 24.7
  • As we saw in Section 2, A washed up Jordan lit up the Nets when they were one of the best defensive teams in the league, and the Nets made the Finals both years that Jordan lit them up, unlike the weak 41-41 Nets team that Lebron was facing
10) Against the 2006 Pistons, 6-2 Lindsey Hunter, a Jordan era defender, gave LeBron problems at age 35.
11) 6-1, 185 lb Rajon Rondo forced Lebron to 4 turnovers in one half when he guarded Lebron in a 2011 regular season game. 6-8 250 Lebron couldn't even post him up.

12) With the game on the line, Rookie of the year Lebron (6-8, 240 lb) couldnt drive past a 35 year old washed up past prime Gary Payton (6-3, 180 lb) and airballed a jumper with Payton on him in a 2004 regular season game.

13) Lebron was held to 5 pts on 1-6 shooting when guarded by Kawhi Leonard (6-7, 220) in Game 5 of the 2014 Finals. All other points came against players besides Leonard, and there were many, many defenders better than Kahwi Leonard in Jordan's era. Leonard is also not the fastest or physically strongest defender out there.

 14) In a 2014 regular season game against the Wizards, Lebron was held to 8-21 (38%) shooting, and 1-8 (13%) shooting when guarded by a 37 year old Paul Pierce.

If a Mavericks team with zero all-def first team players shut 
him down, there is nothing to suggest the top defenses of the
 90s could not do the same.

So cut the nonsense that Lebron is too athletic/muscular/strong to be guarded, because old, unathletic, slow geezers, and short players were able to lock him down without hand checking, without playing physical, and even with defensive 3 seconds disadvantage. If Dennis Rodman can shut down Malone, Shaq, and Alonzo while Boris Diaw holds Lebron to 3-13 shooting in the whole 2013 Finals  then the "too athletic to be guarded" myth is 100% false.


If Lebron got locked down by Boris Diaw, I'd love to see what a much quicker, stronger, faster, and overall better defender like Anthony Mason would do to him, especially with his versatility

And for fun, lets see how Lebron does against teams with more athletic, fast, high-flying players. After all, according to Lebron/2000s fanboys the players in Jordan's era were slow unathletic bums, and the super athletic players of today must be much better on defense. By this ridiculous logic, Lebron should have struggled more against the high-flying athletic teams that he faced in comparison to old veteran, slow, old geezer teams like the Mavs, Celtics, and Spurs.

1) In the 2012 Finals against OKC Thunder with Westbrook and Ibaka, 2 of the most athletic players at their position, as well as a 6-10 Durant that moves and shoots like a guard, Lebron averaged 28.6 ppg on 47%.
  • Compare that with his 25.3 ppg on less than 45% against the 2013 old geezer Spurs
  • or his 42.3% shooting against a weak 2007 Nets team
2) Against the 2009 Hawks with one of the most athletic dunkers in the league, Josh Smith, Lebron averaged 34 ppg and 6 apg on 56%
  • Compare that with his 22 ppg on 36% against the 07 Spurs whose best perimeter defender was a 35 year old Bruce Bowen
  • or his 42.5% shooting against one of the weakest defensive teams ever, the 2007 Wizards 
3) Against the 2013 Pacers with an athletic defender like Paul George and another good defender in Lance Stephenson, Lebron averaged 29 ppg on 51% shooting
  • Compare that with his 26.6 and 25.7 ppg on less 45% shooting performances against the 06 and 07 Pistons with zero athletic perimeter defenders
  • or his 3-13 (23%) shooting performance against Boris Diaw over all 7 games in the 2013 Finals
Lebron in several cases actually plays BETTER against the athletic teams or defenders of the league than he did against old veteran and more unathletic teams like Boris Diaw, the old Celtics, old Spurs, and 06/07 Pistons. Obviously, it is idiotic to assume that just because there are athletic players in the league that they can play good defense, or that the slow plodding guys can't play defense.

Despite their remarkable athleticism, Lob City
was not even a top 10 defense in the 2013/14 season
How else do you explain how old geezer teams like the Spurs and Celtics have always been one of the top defensive teams in the league while super athletic teams like the Clippers don't have that reputation? Just look at how the Grizzilies, their top interior defenders being Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph (with maybe a combined 15 inch vertical) contained a high-flying 6-10 250 monster like Blake Griffin in back to back playoff series.


According to the logic of those people who say the "slow unathletic bums" of the Jordan era can't play defense, Griffin should have crushed the slow unathletic frontline of the Grizzlies. But it doesn't occur to them that athleticism and speed doesn't equate to good defense, or that slow, unathletic guys like Gasol and Randolph can play great defense - just like the 80s Celtics.

Like the 2007 Spurs, who shut down Lebron to 36%
shooting, the 1980s Celtics never needed remarkable
athleticism to be a great defensive team.

I shouldn't even be wasting my time making the point that athleticism, crazy hops, and height doesn't equate to good defense because its common sense, but that's something I repeatedly hear from delusional 2000s fanboys. "Oh, Jordan played slow unathletic guys." Well, Lebron got completely shut down by slow unathletic old geezers like the Mavs, Celtics, and Spurs teams, so what's your point? Blake Griffin got contained by some of the slowest big men in the league, so what's your point?

That's also why it is stupid when people look at the 1986 Celtics and say "Oh, these are all slow unathletic white guys who can't jump, no wonder Jordan had 63 points." In actuality they had a top 3 defense in the league, and went on to beat teams with athletic players just like Lebron, such as the most powerful dunker of all time in Dominique Wilkins (who in the 86 Celtics-Hawks series shot less than 40%), as well as the twin towers of Sampson and Hakeem (the same Hakeem that outplayed Shaq in the 95 Finals, and gives Lebron, Kobe, Melo, and Dwight lessons on footwork), despite having slow white guys like Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, and Danny Ainge. If Lebron-type athleticism was such a big advantage on offense and impossible to guard, then one of the greatest scorers and leapers of all time in Dominique Wilkins shouldn't have struggled against that 86 Celtics team. But that is far from the truth.

In addition to people claiming that Lebron's overrated defense would be unstoppable with the 80s/90s rules (and we'll get to that myth later), they say that if he could play more physical on offensive end, he would be unstoppable. Well, explain how a freakish monster like 6-10 240 freight train Shawn Kemp was never dominating the 1990s with 30 ppg and winning championships left and right? Even though he was a very good player, he never had the success of other less athletic all-time great players of the 80s and 90s.

Shawn Kemp was a 6-10 240 freight train who could run like a guard, so if he was allowed to play physical against those "slow unathletic white guys" of the 90s, why couldn't he completely obliterate them? Ok, you might say that even with Kemp's solid midrange game and with a post up game that's better than Lebron (I'm not saying he's a better player, just his post-up game), he didn't have upper-echelon skills to compliment his athleticism.

Well, what about Dominique Wilkins? He could jump higher than Lebron and wasnt far behind in the speed department. On top of that, in the scoring department he was definitely better than Lebron, especially when you consider Lebron's inflation benefit. Even with the benefit of physical play in the 80s/90s, Dominique's monstrous athleticism still got held to just 24 ppg on less than 40% shooting against the 86 Celtics team of slow white guys that supposedly couldn't play defense. That was right after after the 86 regular season in which Dominique lead the league in scoring with 30 ppg on 47% shooting.

Dominique also only had 22 ppg on 38% shooting against the 87 Bad Boy Pistons after averaging 29 ppg on 46% shooting in the 87 regular season. So under the circumstances of any era, physical or non-physical, there is nothing to suggest that Lebron's 6-8 250 athleticism can save him from getting shut down by 80s and 90s defenses, who shut down better scorers than him like Dominique Wilkins, who had pretty much the same level of athleticism.

Despite his freakish athleticism, Dominique
was repeatedly locked down by less
athletic teams such as the Celtics. The 
same would happen with Lebron in 
the 80s, just like it happened with the
2000s Spurs and Celtics
Size, quickness, speed, and athleticism doesn't equate to good defense, otherwise Vince Carter would be a better defender than Gary Payton. Speaking of the super athletic freak Vince, we already saw how a shell of the 90s Knicks defense completely shut him down after the 2 best scoring seasons of his career. Keep in mind this Knicks defense was further weakened after the massive anti-handcheck rule introduced in the very same 99/00 season.

So everyone needs to stop the idiotic nonsense that Lebron being a 6-8 250 freight train means that teams like the 80s Celtics or the Bad Boy Pistons couldn't lock him down, especially when they shut down guys like Dominique, with just as much athleticism as Lebron, and who was a better pure scorer (I said better scorer, not a better player). Same case with the early 90s Knicks, when a shell of that team shut down the athletic freak Vince Carter for two entire playoff series.

When Lebron gets locked down by teams like the 2007 Spurs with no athleticism and a 35 year old Bruce Bowen, 2008 Celtics with no athletic perimeter defenders, slow Boris Diaw with zero defensive awards in his career, the 2011 Mavs with no athletic perimeter defenders and with zero all-defensive first team players in 2011, a 6-3 180 35 years old washed up Gary Payton - without any of the handchecking or physical rules of the 80s/90s, and with the benefit of defensive 3 seconds to open up the lanes for him, then the nonsense that he is too big, strong, or fast too be guarded needs to stop.

In combination with all of that has already been shown and proven, let's look at what past and present players say when comparing the 80s/90s NBA to the 2000s. This next part is a repeat from Section 1, so skip past it if you already read the initial post.

 1) Joe Johnson on the anti-handchecking rule - "It benefits me," said Joe Johnson. "It definitely changes the game because it gives every guy that extra step. "If we could hand check now, the game would be totally different." "If they couldn't hand check back in the day, there are some guys that would have been even better than they were. It would have been nuts for some of the big-time scorers and perimeter players from the 1980s and 1990s. Can you imagine what Jordan would have done in a league where you couldn't hand check?"

2) Phil Jackson - "Michael would average 45 with these rules."
- Remember that Phil Jackson has also coached Kobe and Shaq to all of their Finals MVPs, so he has seen both sides.

3) Larry Brown - "You can't even touch a guy now." I always tease Michael, if he played today, he'd average 50."
- Brown coached the 2004 and 2005 Pistons defense that shut down Kobe and Duncan to 38% and 42% shooting in the Finals, respectively.

4) Clyde Drexler on how his numbers would be today - "Oh, tremendously better, from shooting percentage to points per game everything would be up, and our old teams would score a lot more points, and that is saying something because we could score a lot back then. I do think there should be an asterisk next to some of these scoring leaders, because it is much different trying to score with a forearm in your face. It is harder to score with that resistance. You had to turn your back on guys defending you back in the day with all the hand checking that was going on. For guys who penetrate these days, it's hunting season."

5) Scottie Pippen - "The defensive rules, the hand checking, the ability to make contact on a guy in certain areas .... [have] all been taken away from the game. If Kobe could get 81, I think Michael could get 100 in today's game."

- Notice how Pippen contradicted himself. He said Lebron may be the best player ever, but he had also said that Jordan would score 100 in today's league - basically stating that today's (Lebron's) league is far weaker than Jordan's. Pippen wisely retracted his statements on Lebron after the 2011 Finals.

6) Craig Hodges, Lakers assistant for their last 2 championships - "M.J., all day. There's no comparison. M.J. could score 100 points in this era. You can't hand-check now. Imagine that trying to guard M.J. It would be crazy."

7) Rick Barry, 1975 Finals MVP on past players under modern rules - "They'd score a lot more." Tex Winter (assistant coach during the Lakers 3peat) echoed these sentiments -  "Players today can get to the basket individually much easier."

8) Joe Dumars, 1989 Finals MVP, first laughed, "It would have been virtually impossible to defend Michael Jordan based on the way the game's being called right now."
- Joe Dumars as President of Basketball Operations for the Pistons was largely responsible for building the dominating Pistons defense of the 2000s that shut down Kobe to 38% in the Finals and made Tim Duncan have his worst FG% in an NBA Finals.

9) Dominique Wilkins - "The power forward position had the license to kick your butt and the game was very physical. I think the physical aspect of the game, some of it has been taken away with the rule changes." "If you're asking me what would I have done [today], well, put it this way, if you couldn't touch me, instead of averaging 25 or 30, I'd probably average 40."

10) Kobe Bryant on 80/90s basketball - "The truth is, it makes the game [where] players have to be more skillful. Nowadays, literally anybody can get out there and get to the basket and you can't touch anybody. Back then, if guys put their hands on you, you had to have the skill to be able to go both ways, change direction, post up, you had to have a mid-range game because you didn't want to go all the way to the basket because you would get knocked ass over tea kettle. So I think playing the game back then required MUCH MORE SKILL."

11) Dennis Rodman on Lebron in 80s/90s - "It's really not a comparison. If LeBron was playing in the late '80s and early '90s, he would be just an average player," (bit of an exaggeration)

Rodman said a 28-year-old Jordan would average at least 40 points a game in today's NBA."I'm just sick and tired of people comparing (James) to Michael Jordan." "It's a whole different era, man." Rodman said Jordan thrived despite playing in a more physical era in the NBA. "LeBron came into the age of the game at a perfect time. Michael came into the game when back then you could hit people, knock him down, shoot a free throw and get back up," Rodman said. "And LeBron can't do that. All they do today is (complain) about a foul. All they do is (complain)."

12) Gary Payton on Lebron in 80s/90s - "You can't guard him now because it seems like you can't put your hands on him. You know what I'm saying?" Payton said during the All-Star break. "With LeBron, if somebody can hand check him and muscle him, it's a lot different when somebody can hand-check you and control you and be stronger than you on the block or whatever and not let you go anywhere. It's a little bit different, as being free and being a freak of nature and his body that he has right now, nobody can guard him, you know what I'm saying? So right now, if he could come back in our era and we could hand check him and guard him and bigger guys get on him and when he gets to the bucket we hit him and knock him like (Bill) Laimbeer, like the Boston Celtic days, it'd be a little bit different. I guarantee you it would be. But he's still great, he's still a great basketball player and like I said he's playing in a great era because he can get to the bucket whenever he feels like it."
- And seeing as a 35 year old washed up past prime Gary Payton at 6-3 180 schooled Rookie of the Year 6-8 240 Lebron on defense, WITHOUT the benefit of the 80s/90s rules, its safe to assume he knows what he's talking about
If a 35-year old Payton locked down Lebron,
what could a prime Payton under the 90s rules 
have done?
13) Magic Johnson - “If I played in this era, it would be over,” said Johnson. “See right now, there is no hand check. Back in my day, you could hand check. You could hard foul.“ Could you imagine Michael Jordan with no hand checking? Larry Bird?”

14) Gary Payton again - Payton cited the younger generation, the NBA lockout in 1999, and rule changes  as contributing factors to how the point guard position and style of play has changed from his own era. “It’s the way our kids are brought up,” Payton said. “You guys have to understand, basketball has changed."

“They had to build it up after the first strike. Basketball was down a little bit. David Stern did a great job of bringing basketball back because he knew kids wanted to see run-and-gun. They didn’t want to see defense like the Knicks were doing. Slowing the ball down, setting up defenses and stuff like that and running plays. Kids weren’t doing that in the playgrounds. So we sped the game up, and that’s what the kids liked. They liked to see dunking, they like to see running, they liked to see scoring and that’s just the way it went.”

15) Ron Artest, 2004 DPOY, on who is the hardest to guard out of Kobe, Lebron, or Jordan
"Jordan, definitely. Jordan's the toughest because he's strong as Lebron, he shoots just as good as Reggie Miller from the midrange... and he's a killer out there on the court"

Keep in mind Artest only faced a washed up 38-40 year old Jordan.


16) In a response to Lebron complaining about the Wizards' physical play in the 2008 playoffs, here's what Brendan Haywood had to say.

"I mean, come on man, this is the playoffs. He wears 23, he wants to be Michael Jordan, I can respect that, he's a great player. You saw what Mike went through. Mike got fouled way worse than this. No one is trying to hurt him, everybody is trying to play basketball, trying to play tough. Play basketball and leave it alone."

This is how Lebron responded the next time he met Haywood in the playoffs.

17) Shaquille O'Neal - "The way the game is played now, Imma go on the record and say it was soft. When we all played it was a little bit harder, but before us that was really playoff basketball."

 18) Rasheed Wallace - In response to an interviewer who referred to Lebron as "King James," here is what Rasheed (2-1 record against Lebron in the playoffs) had to say:

"I don't know if there's any kings, you know. That's something y'all (the media) labeled him"
- That's a key point. The perception of Lebron as someone that can be compared with the likes of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Kareem, and many more vastly superior players is something that was created by the media based on hype and marketing. The reality is much different.

 19) Dominique Wilkins on Lebron in the 80s/90s - "He's King James in this era, right? In our era he'd just been LeBron"

20) Charles Oakley - "It was a different era, though. Defense was different. I mean, even though (Jordan) got a lot of points, he worked for them... (Today's game) is way softer."

 21) Tracy McGrady - "The league is so young and they have no skills. They have athleticism but no skills. Half these guys wouldn't be able to play in the league when I first came into it (1997/98)." 

 22) Tom Thibodeau, when asked to compare his 2008 Celtics defense to other defenses he helped mold, said this - "Right now, I'd say the (90s) New York teams were much more physical because at that time you were allowed to play much more physical and we had greater size."
- Thibodeau played a major role in creating the stacked 2008 Celtics defense that shut down Lebron to 35.5% shooting with 5+ turnovers a game in the 2008 ECSF, and he acknowledged the Jordan era Knicks were much more physical.

23) Hakeem Olajuwon - “When people start comparing (James) with Jordan, then that’s not a fair comparison. Jordan was a far more superior player in a very tough league, he was very creative. That’s not taking away anything from LeBron, because he is a great player, but it is not a fair comparison because Jordan is a far superior player.”

24) Lebron James - "Hopefully the league can figure out one way where it can go back to the '80s where you had three or four All-Stars, three or four superstars, three or four Hall of Famers on the same team," James said. "The league was great. It wasn't as watered down as it is [now]."
25) But the Pistons, by league design, might never get back to the defensive level of last year and the year before...

 Asked if the Pistons will be allowed to play the same kind of physical defense, (Chauncey) Billups said: "No way. They put in all those rules, like the hand check, after we won the championship two years ago playing defense. Nobody wanted to see a defensive team in the Finals and winning. It's not as explosive. It's not as fun to watch. I don't like watching it either. I'm not mad at 'em. 
But you look at us against San Antonio last year. Two really good defensive teams in the Finals played seven games and got the worst ratings in history almost. Seven games. There hadn't been a seventh game in the NBA Finals in a lot of years, man. But look at the first-round series this year. Lakers-Phoenix and Washington-Cleveland had ratings out of the roof. They're running up and down the floor, no defense being played, shooting and running and gunning. That's fun to watch. So they put in those rules to keep it from being 89-85."

More


- Looking at how the Jordan Era players had an easier time in the modern era
- Looking at how a 38-40 year old Jordan himself schooled the 2000s defenders

SECTION 3 - Jordan's "Weak" Defensive Competition Compared to Lebron/Kobe's "Advanced" Competition
- Proving the vast superiority of individual defenders of Jordan's era compared to the 2000s
- Destroying the myth that Jordan never played zone defense
- Proof that 80s/90s players would still have success guarding 2000s players without the 80s/90s rules
- Looking at how Jordan did against the 80s teams and why expansion did not make it easier to win championships
- Proof that Jordan's Competition was 80s-quality and far better than the 2000s era
- Looking at the truth of how the Bulls did without Jordan, and how other great teams did without their stars.
- Did Jordan really get any more special treatment than other superstars? Nope.
- Exposing the myths behind the great, but misunderstood, Wilt Chamberlain
- Looking at how Lebron got locked down by defenders of the 2000s era and comparing them to the vastly superior 80s/90s
- Destroying one of the media's biggest misconceptions regarding Lebron's solid but vastly overrated defense
- Lebron fans think no player in history could succeed if their teammates don't step up, and that Lebron is the only one who has carried a team on his back. Is that really the case?
- The real Jordan vs Lebron comparison
- The real Jordan vs Kobe comparison
- Kareem is great, but he is not even the greatest center of all-time, let alone the greatest of all-time.
- The full context behind Jordan's struggles without Pippen
- A look at how Jordan turned the Wizards around before his knee injury caught up to him

- Looking at Jordan's defensive impact in detail, both as a team player and 1 on 1 defender

- Looking at the strong evidence supporting that Jordan would have achieved more than what LeBron has in Cleveland and Miami 

SECTION 21 - Hakeem Olajuwon: The Greatest Center of All-Time
- Hakeem Olajuwon is the best center of all-time, and there is strong evidence to prove it

SECTION 22 - Chris Paul: The Most Overrated Point Guard Of All-Time
- Chris Paul is an extremely overrated playoff performer and defender, and isn't even a top 5 PG of his own era, let alone all-time

SECTION 23 - Kevin Johnson: The Most Underrated Point Guard Of All-Time
- Kevin Johnson is an extremely underrated and under-appreciated point guard, who should have been a first-ballot Hall of Famer and considered a top-10 point guard of all-time

SECTION 24 - The Three Greatest Playoff Runs of All-Time
- Analyzing the three greatest individual playoff runs in NBA history

SECTION 25 - The Worst Finals Performances of All-Time
- Analyzing the worst performances in NBA Finals history

SECTION 26 - Jordan vs Russell
- Comparing the two players who won the most championships as the best player on their team

SECTION 27 - The Five Greatest Coaches of All-Time
- Taking a look at the greatest coaches in NBA history

 SECTION 28 - The Least Deserving Finals MVPs of All-Time
- Taking a look at the players who least deserved to win their Finals MVPs

SECTION 29 - Refuting 10 Myths About Michael Jordan
- Refuting certain myths about Jordan, as well as abridging of some of the main points in earlier sections for easier reference.

SECTION 30 - The 20 Greatest Conference Finals Runs of All-Time
- Ranking the 20 greatest playoff runs in which a player played 3 rounds before losing prior to the NBA Finals

 SECTION 31 - The 1970s: The Weakest Decade of the NBA's Post-Infancy
- Why the 1970s was the weakest decade of any era from 1960-present

 SECTION 32 - The 10 Worst Supporting Casts on NBA Finals Teams (1960-Present)
- Examining the worst supporting casts on teams that reached the NBA Finals

SECTION 33 - The 10 Greatest Rookie Playoff Runs of All-Time
- The most impressive playoff runs in which rookies led their team to at least one series win
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